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Raff View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2010 at 16:36
Sorry for the OT, but I'd like to wish you a happy birthday, fellow Wheel of Time fanSmile!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2010 at 16:37
Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:

Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

Maybe we change the name to "influence on / from prog, interest of / to prog" .
I'm quite aware that bands like XTC and Jellyfish could be fit in under such a tag.

Heck, let's just label it "you might like 'em" or "of possible interest to a prog fan" if we want to make it sound important .

I still think that a big name band has to leap over tall buildings , when all a no-name act has to do, is to show up at the door with a friend.Wink




Sophisticated non-progressive music

As much as we all love purebred progressive rock in all it's varieties, it's not the total bread and butter of what we listen to. Many mainstream-oriented artists have a high level of sophistication to their music, in the shape of compositional, structural, improvisational or experimental features that also caters to a progressive audience. From the well-known jams of Grateful Dead to the highly challenging antics of Björk, Soundgarden's dissonant riff structures and Judas Priest's groundbreaking approach that would influence every metal act that followed.
There's an abundance of artists both well and not so well known that creates music that goes beyond the borders of easygoing, easy listenable music that will be of interest to a progressive audience. And many of the fans interested in these varieties of sophisticated music will also find the purebred progressive approach interesting if they become aware of it.
To cater for musical tastes outside of the progressive field for our main audience, as well as to attract those familiar with the sophisticated but unaware of the progressive, we have decided to expand the scope of this website with this category. To connect these two audiences, for the benefit of both.

--------------

It will most likely never happen, but it is a dream...


but - in fact - isn't it prog related you are writing about?



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2010 at 16:42
I think that what I wrote about was the original idea behind prog-related. But due to reasons hinted at by Raff here, prog related has now turned into this charade:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Without being 100% Prog, received clear MUSICAL influence of this genre, AND

- Are widely accepted as MUSICALLY influential to the development of Progressive Rock by the community, AND

- Blend characteristics of Progressive Rock with mainstream elements creating a final product that despite not being part of the genre is evident that are close to Prog.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...basically eliminating all the original intentions of the genre, and closing it down to be a narrow field to be populated by a very small number of artists.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2010 at 16:45
When it come to Prog Related, I think it's commonly easier for a relatively known name to get in than a real obscurity (partially because an obscurity is less likely to have had much influence on Prog being, well, obscure, plus it's more difficult to find info on obscurities and make the case).  I know that in my time on a Prog team it was all about the music and not the name (but then Eclectic doesn't deal with so many big names not known for Prog).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2010 at 16:50
now that is a great group.. and one I've always loved.. however.. to repeat as surely some have already..

progressive music  =/ prog music. (Beck anyone? LOLHeart)  Just as quality =/ prog.. or related..  nor does creative use of time signature.. that is just a sign of creative and intelligent music.  Prog does not have the license on that.   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2010 at 17:08
Originally posted by Blowin Free Blowin Free wrote:

I did not necessarily mean Crossover, as always, Related is always an option! Remember people, if goddamn IRON MAIDEN are on this site, then Soundgarden should be in atleast related.
No, it's not, that's not what related means.
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2010 at 19:57
O.K., I have to come clean here - if I can get Soundgarden in, next is Poison. I'm already working on building a case for Nazareth around their song "Telegram". Once they're in , I'm pretty sure I can get AC/DC in.
Then it's only a matter of time before i get Public Enemy under Krautrock or Electronic; Crowded House in Crossover, and Bob Dylan in Folk (no not prog related, but a full blown prog genre).
After that, there's not an "X is here, why not Y" that will no be able to prove the merit of  any classic rock band's candidacy.

"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2010 at 20:08
I hear Soundgarden elements in Pain Of Salvation (Gildenlow sounds like Cornell sometimes) and Mastodon. 


Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2010 at 10:06
I hear Soundgarden has sold a few million albums. Just what do they need PA for ?
Er, wait, is a band's merit based their need for PA's promotional power ?

I hear that some of Celine DIon's songs have classical music leanings or origins. Could that be a starting point for her admission under Symphonic Prog ? She has a virtuosic instrument in her voice.
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2010 at 10:37
I think only one song of SOUNDGARDEN have proggy elements: " Black hole sun". I dont care about what is soundgarden. I'm sure this band is not a progressive band and if you want call it PROG you can call " Grandfunk Railroad" too!!! Grandfunk have one proggy song called " Railroad".
Playing instruments is not a good reason for categorized bands. A prog rock band must have several elements and must have atmospher of prog, This is a big mistake if we focus to one or two things and then categorize.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2010 at 14:31
This thread is about Soundgarden the Grunge Rock isn't it?

Just checking.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2010 at 14:36
I wonder why Soundgarden is suggested for PA, while there is this band called The Melvins, which inspired a host of grunge bands and which is far more "proggy"...
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2010 at 15:06
Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:

You know Claude, if the criterias for prog related hadn't been as tight as a flea's arse I wouldn't have minded seeing theme there.

Currently getting a band in there is just about as easy as winning the lottery though, as it has been decided that prog-related as a genre basically is an unwanted feature around these parts.
Actually Olav I have found the P-R route to be mostly positive when presenting a band with good justification. The controversial issues always stem from emotive connections to the older bands.
 
To confirm a no for crossover, same for the great Blind Melon if they ever got suggested
 
Let them present a decent case ( Blowin free) and you might have success
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2010 at 02:06
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

This thread is about Soundgarden the Grunge Rock isn't it?

Just checking.



Maybe somebody saw the Nirvana bio etc and just got confused

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2010 at 02:08
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

This thread is about Soundgarden the Grunge Rock isn't it?

Just checking.



Maybe somebody saw the Nirvana bio etc and just got confused

>:- ) ... when I saw Nirvana in search results, I wondered quite a lot.

There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2010 at 02:45
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:

You know Claude, if the criterias for prog related hadn't been as tight as a flea's arse I wouldn't have minded seeing theme there.

Currently getting a band in there is just about as easy as winning the lottery though, as it has been decided that prog-related as a genre basically is an unwanted feature around these parts.
Actually Olav I have found the P-R route to be mostly positive when presenting a band with good justification. The controversial issues always stem from emotive connections to the older bands.
 
To confirm a no for crossover, same for the great Blind Melon if they ever got suggested
 
Let them present a decent case ( Blowin free) and you might have success


Ah. It used to be that way, until they tightened the definition from being one out of three possibilities for inclusion to become all three parameters.

The definition used to be:

- Without being 100% Prog, received clear MUSICAL influence of this genre,
OR

- Are widely accepted as MUSICALLY influential to the development of Progressive Rock by the community, OR
- Blend characteristics of Progressive Rock with mainstream elements creating a final product that despite not being part of the genre is evident that are close to Prog.

The revised definition is:

- Without being 100% Prog, received clear MUSICAL influence of this genre,
AND

- Are widely accepted as MUSICALLY influential to the development of Progressive Rock by the community, AND
- Blend characteristics of Progressive Rock with mainstream elements creating a final product that despite not being part of the genre is evident that are close to Prog.
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2010 at 06:18
(Windhawk) It is, or it is not unfair ?
There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2010 at 06:28
Depends on your point of view Marty. Those who think that the site is too inclusive as it is obviously like this narrowed down approach.

Those of us with a more liberal approach to matters don't all agree to that ;-)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2010 at 06:34
You want my own two cents on that, Marty? I believe that the problem with many of the bands included in PR - and, consequently, with most suggestions - is that they're known as 'something else' other than prog. You know, many people rely on tags and labels rather than actually listen to the music. X are known as a new-wave band, therefore they cannot be prog-related (or even fully prog). Y are known as a punk band, therefore we should keep them out of the site - no matter if they sound at least as prog as other acts included without discussion.

Even if I disagree with the restricted definition of PR, I understand why the Admins (who are in charge of the category) have implemented that. It would be enough to look at some of the reactions in this thread or elsewhere to realize what would happen if such a 'controversial' band was added.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2010 at 11:21
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

This thread is about Soundgarden the Grunge Rock isn't it?

Just checking.

You right tony!! I thought we speak about PROG ! I mistake and i'm sorry. Now i undrestand this. We talk about Grunge rock and we dont want to suggest new PROG bands. thanks.
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