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Points: 24646 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: No Nick Drake?
    Posted: March 04 2010 at 06:14
Originally posted by Bonnek Bonnek wrote:


Nick Drake is an artist that crossed my mind as well.
He's one of the artists that I looked up when I joined PA and was a bit surprised not to find.

He's a singer-songwriter and I don't think he innovated anything from a formal point of view.
But there's some vibe in his music that sits close to the dreamy mellow side of bands like Le Orme, Opeth, Pink Floyd,...
It's hard to put my finger on it though. Maybe it's just a similarity in mood.

 
Clap Well said! And somehow there are many references to Nick Drake on this site. When I search for "Nick Drake" there appear 10 or 11 pages. When I count out the false searches (Bob Drake, Nick D'Virgilio) and my own posts in the song and album games there are still 8 or 9 pages left.


Edited by someone_else - March 04 2010 at 06:18
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Points: 4521 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2010 at 05:26

Nick Drake is an artist that crossed my mind as well.
He's one of the artists that I looked up when I joined PA and was a bit surprised not to find.

He's a singer-songwriter and I don't think he innovated anything from a formal point of view.
But there's some vibe in his music that sits close to the dreamy mellow side of bands like Le Orme, Opeth, Pink Floyd,...
It's hard to put my finger on it though. Maybe it's just a similarity in mood.



Edited by Bonnek - March 04 2010 at 05:27
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Points: 20033 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2010 at 08:32
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by The Quiet One The Quiet One wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Well, Joni could be here, but not for her folk stuff.  But her later 70s music with Jaco and Methany, stuff like Hejira and songs like Paprika Plains are worth considering.  
 
Yeah, that era is lovely, though not sure if I would consider it Jazz Rock "with Prog credentials"

steely dan, jazz-pop is here. So having Joni Mitchell, playing stuff in the same league, would not be a surprise.
Steely Dan are jazz-pop? LOLLOLLOLLOL
Sounds reasonable to me. If I remember correctly that's how they're described in my Dan compilation at home. Getting back to the subject, Nick Drake is wonderful but I don't see him as being prog-folk or even prog-related.
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2010 at 07:25
Originally posted by Seyo Seyo wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:


Jeez, you'd think with some of the things being said in this thread that I had done something really crazy, like suggest post-punk as a sub-genre, or something. Wacko
 
Actually, I do think that most of post-punk was in fact a true "progressive rock" of the 1980s and not "Neo-prog" for instance. Honestly. But this is off topic...Big smile


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Points: 1320 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2010 at 07:23
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:


Jeez, you'd think with some of the things being said in this thread that I had done something really crazy, like suggest post-punk as a sub-genre, or something. Wacko
 
Actually, I do think that most of post-punk was in fact a true "progressive rock" of the 1980s and not "Neo-prog" for instance. Honestly. But this is off topic...Big smile
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 13:11
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by The Quiet One The Quiet One wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Well, Joni could be here, but not for her folk stuff.  But her later 70s music with Jaco and Methany, stuff like Hejira and songs like Paprika Plains are worth considering.  
 
Yeah, that era is lovely, though not sure if I would consider it Jazz Rock "with Prog credentials"

steely dan, jazz-pop is here. So having Joni Mitchell, playing stuff in the same league, would not be a surprise.
Steely Dan are jazz-pop? LOLLOLLOLLOL

Seriously. Talk about a watered-down description of one of the most innovative bands of our time. 

EDIT: Just saw your newest post, lucas. I take it all back. If a bunch of bloggers use the term, it must be what they are! 

Wink


Edited by JLocke - February 28 2010 at 13:12
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Points: 8138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 13:10
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by The Quiet One The Quiet One wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Well, Joni could be here, but not for her folk stuff.  But her later 70s music with Jaco and Methany, stuff like Hejira and songs like Paprika Plains are worth considering.  
 
Yeah, that era is lovely, though not sure if I would consider it Jazz Rock "with Prog credentials"

steely dan, jazz-pop is here. So having Joni Mitchell, playing stuff in the same league, would not be a surprise.
Steely Dan are jazz-pop? LOLLOLLOLLOL


jazz meets pop = jazz pop, don't you think, not really "rock" therefore pop...
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Points: 17330 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 12:56
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

Joni Mitchell????????????????????????????????????


You can flame me now, I have broad shoulders and an asbestos jacket.


But come on people.






No flames at all Tony, but just want to ask respectfully, have you listened to the material from Hissing through Shadows/Light/Mingus?   Or is your comment based strictly on her more folkie 60s/early 70s stuff?Smile
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Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 12:54
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by The Quiet One The Quiet One wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Well, Joni could be here, but not for her folk stuff.  But her later 70s music with Jaco and Methany, stuff like Hejira and songs like Paprika Plains are worth considering.  
 
Yeah, that era is lovely, though not sure if I would consider it Jazz Rock "with Prog credentials"

steely dan, jazz-pop is here. So having Joni Mitchell, playing stuff in the same league, would not be a surprise.
Steely Dan are jazz-pop? LOLLOLLOLLOL
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Points: 8138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:49
^
given the fact that some experimentation thrown in songs can make an album "prog" (cf the suppoedly experimental 'inside out' by John Martyn) I wouldn't be surprised to see Joni Mitchell included on the basis of 'the hissing of summer lawns'. 
I am not suggesting her inclusion btw. 
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:43
Joni Mitchell????????????????????????????????????


You can flame me now, I have broad shoulders and an asbestos jacket.


But come on people.
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Points: 8138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:41
^
yes, folk-rock is what qualifies the best his music...
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Points: 4659 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:25

Nick Drake has been proposed and considered several times over the past 4-5 years, for both Prog Folk and Prog-related.  He is currently on the 'not likely' list for Prog Folk, simply because there is little merit to the argument his music is progressive in any way.  That said, I believe all the Prog Folk collabs are fans.

I'm not sure if any other genre teams have considered him; frankly IMHO it would be hard to picture him anywhere but Prog Folk if he were to be included here at all.
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:08
hahha... exactly.. join the club.  Trust me... there are no depths to the level some will stoop if they disagree.  
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Points: 679 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:08
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Just a thought: that thread is almost 4 years old, and two of the artists mentioned there - Tim Buckley and John Martyn - have since been added. 

OK for Tim Buckley ('starsailor' is a psychedelic folk album (or should I say acid-folk ?), and psychedlic is considered prog here).

But John Martyn ?
Inside out is a very experimental album by John Martyn and on his live albums he would stretch some songs to 20 minutes.

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan also can sing for 20 mn...
Yes but John would improvise greatly during those 20 minutes and be as inventive and experimental as any of the accepted artists here.

For heaven's sake. John Martyn IS here. Just do a site search. LOL
I know!Tongue I'm just defending his inclusionWink
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:08
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by clarke2001 clarke2001 wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Who's next : Vashti Bunyan, Bill Fay, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, John Martyn, Buffy Sainte-Marie ?

Should I understand that all the folk-rock artists/bands of the late sixties/early seventies belong to folk-prog ???

Just because you like a band, it doesn't mean it has to be prog...


I believe people here are not so shallow to believe an artist is prog just because they like it.
I love Neil Young, he certainly influenced a number of prog artists (Yes included) but I don't believe he should be here.
I don't like Nick Drake and I think he perhaps deserves a place here.

Oh, and John Martyn is already here.Tongue



^ Thanks for being sensible, here. I can't stand it when somebody accuses me of pushing an artist for no good reason. I specifically DON"T do that. If I honestly didn't think Drake had a chance in hell of being added, here, I wouldn't have suggested him.

Jeez, you'd think with some of the things being said in this thread that I had done something really crazy, like suggest post-punk as a sub-genre, or something. Wacko
I think Nick Drake paved the way for gothic folk/gothic country and has disciples in Nick Cave, Sol Invictus, Death in june, Jay Munly...but never thought of him as a prog artist. 

post-punk (and its US equivalent : no wave, as opposed to new wave) is experimental, just like post-rock and post-metal, which are not prog subgenres as well but are considered as such here...I meant to add it as a subgenre just because it's another of those "post-"something" that, through its experimental side, has something to do with "prog". Most of the bands of the post-punk bands will probably find their way in prog-related or crossover-prog, I don't know, but it doesn't really reflect the musical genre they belong to, and it adds even more confusion as to what is prog-related or crossover-prog.

No, I know, man. Smile I was honestly just trying to make a point. In your situation with the post-punk thing, you felt that it deserved a place here. The majority (at least for now) disagrees. Similarly, I felt that Drake had some merits to at least consider for inclusion, but the majority disagrees with me, also.

So we both have been in the same situation, and I guess I felt it was a little rash for you to accuse me of something I would never do in a million years (suggest an artist simply because I like them), when in fact you had been in a similar, out-ruled boat not even two weeks ago. 

But no harm meant. 
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:07
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

[

^ Thanks for being sensible, here. I can't stand it when somebody accuses me of pushing an artist for no good reason. I specifically DON"T do that. If I honestly didn't think Drake had a chance in hell of being added, here, I wouldn't have suggested him.

Jeez, you'd think with some of the things being said in this thread that I had done something really crazy, like suggest post-punk as a sub-genre, or something. Wacko


Welcome to the clubWink! It seems some people can't disagree with a suggestion or addition without questioning other people's motivations.
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Points: 8138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:05
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by clarke2001 clarke2001 wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Who's next : Vashti Bunyan, Bill Fay, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, John Martyn, Buffy Sainte-Marie ?

Should I understand that all the folk-rock artists/bands of the late sixties/early seventies belong to folk-prog ???

Just because you like a band, it doesn't mean it has to be prog...


I believe people here are not so shallow to believe an artist is prog just because they like it.
I love Neil Young, he certainly influenced a number of prog artists (Yes included) but I don't believe he should be here.
I don't like Nick Drake and I think he perhaps deserves a place here.

Oh, and John Martyn is already here.Tongue



^ Thanks for being sensible, here. I can't stand it when somebody accuses me of pushing an artist for no good reason. I specifically DON"T do that. If I honestly didn't think Drake had a chance in hell of being added, here, I wouldn't have suggested him.

Jeez, you'd think with some of the things being said in this thread that I had done something really crazy, like suggest post-punk as a sub-genre, or something. Wacko
I think Nick Drake paved the way for dark folk/gothic country and has disciples in Nick Cave, Sol Invictus, Death in june, Jay Munly...but never thought of him as a prog artist. 

post-punk (and its US equivalent : no wave, as opposed to new wave) is experimental, just like post-rock and post-metal, which are not prog subgenres as well but are considered as such here...I meant to add it as a subgenre just because it's another of those "post-"something" that, through its experimental side, has something to do with "prog". Most of the bands of the post-punk bands will probably find their way in prog-related or crossover-prog, I don't know, but it doesn't really reflect the musical genre they belong to, and it adds even more confusion as to what is prog-related or crossover-prog.


Edited by lucas - February 28 2010 at 11:12
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:04
Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Just a thought: that thread is almost 4 years old, and two of the artists mentioned there - Tim Buckley and John Martyn - have since been added. 

OK for Tim Buckley ('starsailor' is a psychedelic folk album (or should I say acid-folk ?), and psychedlic is considered prog here).

But John Martyn ?
Inside out is a very experimental album by John Martyn and on his live albums he would stretch some songs to 20 minutes.

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan also can sing for 20 mn...
Yes but John would improvise greatly during those 20 minutes and be as inventive and experimental as any of the accepted artists here.

For heaven's sake. John Martyn IS here. Just do a site search. LOL
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Points: 679 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:03
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Just a thought: that thread is almost 4 years old, and two of the artists mentioned there - Tim Buckley and John Martyn - have since been added. 

OK for Tim Buckley ('starsailor' is a psychedelic folk album (or should I say acid-folk ?), and psychedlic is considered prog here).

But John Martyn ?
Inside out is a very experimental album by John Martyn and on his live albums he would stretch some songs to 20 minutes.

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan also can sing for 20 mn...
Yes but John would improvise greatly during those 20 minutes and be as inventive and experimental as any of the accepted artists here.
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