Flower Kings Appreciation Thread

Man Overboard wrote: Oh man, we got killed here in Maryland.  I didn't think the roads were so bad, even in a front-wheel-drive minivan, but the majority of the population differed and this town -shut town-.  Seems to be back on track now, but there are still snowbanks everywhere and several neighborhoods with icy roads. Not trying to be a jerk and re-rail the thread or anything (), but exactly how did the Flower Kings get the stigma of being derivative, among other things?  I mean, someone tell me what prog classic that Devil's Playground lifts its melodies and counterpoint from.  Sure, Stolt leans towards vintage equipment in his production, but he frequently makes use of sounds and textures from many eras of many genres.  His compositional style is all his own and tends to lean towards Zappa-esque levels of symphonic complexity and counterpoint rather than the straightforward harmonic structures that characterize classic prog, with a subtlety and sophistication that is easy to miss because it's so masterfully crafted. Meanwhile, certain 'untouchable' modern prog bands that generally disdain being lumped in with the genre are highly praised while they lift progressions and melodies wholesale and bury them under a pile of gimmicky effects.  What a world.

Hey ManOverboard, thanks for checking in and rerailing us.

I jokingly refer a rather vocal group in the prog world as the 'Seventies Forever' crowd.  The Seventies Forever group has the collective opinion that Genesis, Yes, <insert remaining parade of everyone's favorite seventies bands here> were the best thing that has ever been invented and nothing will ever replace them.  I've actually seen someone post something to the effect of 'the best music has already been made, why should I listen to anything else'.

Now, The Flower Kings, Spock's Beard, Transatlantic and just about anyone else labeled as 'symphonic prog' releasing music after Anglagard gets the label of being derivative, why?  In my opinion, it's simply because they're considered symphonic.  The Seventies Forever crowd apparently can't bear the notion that anything could ever have been released as good as "Close to the Edge" and "Selling England by the Pound".  Don't get me wrong, I love Genesis and Selling England, I am willing to listen to other music and *gasp* accept that it could be better than a classic.

Take "The Tangent", they don't get nearly the abuse that The Flower Kings get, why?  Partially because they're labeled 'Ecclectic'.  They can release good albums because they're not the same genre as the 70's forever bands.  For the record, I know that King Crimson is labeled as eclectic, but by their very nature, King Crimson fans are more open to change and I'm not talking about the ones that only appreciate the first release.

Since "The Flower Kings" are symphonic, they have impossible standards to live up to, the second someone hears a Mellotron, they're just copying the seventies precursors.  Throw a 12 string guitar in there and oh lord, the sacrilege.  I'll admit, "There is More to this World" sounds like it could have come off of Fragile, but one song does not a career make.

To sum, The Flower Kings get a bad rap because they've been put in the symphonic genre and the seventies forever crowd don't like relative newcomers infringing on their turf.  (and yes, I appreciate the irony that Stolt started his prog career back in the seventies).

Welcome to the group,

Tom

Man Overboard wrote: M27Barney wrote: However there could be several interpretations of the adjective - Derivative - the Flokis drift in and out of 70's style prog throughtout their entire output - they also prefer longer tracks - the epic and tracks with concepts - all these could be classed as "Derivative" of 70's prog. ANYWAY - Isn't it about time that the flokis or some similar band - put out an extended and better recorded version of "The Lamb......" ID BUY IT !!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JluEkUnoaK4  Biff Tannen wrote: Even TFK's least best CDs like The Sum of No Evil and The Rainmaker are solid 3-star efforts.  Agree with just about everything you said but this...  I consider Rainmaker one of their top-tier records, its journey into bizarre counterpoint and harmony is unmatched in the discography, despite being able to stay very accessible.

I didn't actually care much for Genesis Rewired, though for the record, I'm a keyboard player and wasn't a fan of replacing all of the synth parts with horns.  Personally, I think redoing someone else's album is kind of a waste.  Considering The Lamb, just buy the remastered version, it sounds fantastic and isn't someone doing someone else's music. 


Regarding "The Rainmaker", I gave that a full listen on the way home this evening and it's certainly good stuff.  I've said for years that "Serious Dreamers" is one of my favorite Flower Kings songs and while the rest of the CD doesn't grab me quite as painfully, it's still an enjoyable listen.

What a great interview!

A big big welcome to Man Overboard and Biff from me too.

Nov wrote:   There is an excellent new interview with Roine here:   http://www.dprp.net/specials/2010_stolt/

Concerning The Rainmaker, I consider it to be Disc 2 of an imaginary double-release Space Revolver. Disc 1 being the original Space Revolver, with the strong material, while Disc 2 has the same vibe but the compositions are by far less-inspires and weaker.

as i can see  love for The Rainmaker varies here  , i just love that album, Road To Sanctuary is excellent epic, Sword of god is great also,Last Minute On Earth .. and Blessing Of A Smile oh man, i adore that piece of art, short, keys predominates ,creating perfect soundscape, a Bliss! Thru The Walls as a catchy song, nice melody .. 

I'm going to see Transatlantic April 17th in Downey, CA. As I've mentioned before I'm travelling 645 miles during finals week just to be able to see them, so you can imagine I'm pretty excited.

Biff Tannen wrote: Like infandous, I was pretty disappointed when The Rainmaker came out, especially since it was the first new TFK record after I got into them.  But I, too, over time liked it more, and enjoy most it now.  And, like infandous again, I do not like "Sword of God" at all.  I said earlier that there are very few TFK songs I flat-out dislike, and that one would be at the very bottom of the list, if I had to rank all of their songs from 1 to whatever. Changing albums here, even though I think Adam and Eve is near the bottom of the list, too, the ending triumvirat of "Timelines," Driver's Seat" and "The Blade of Cain" is fantastic.  In fact, I think "Driver's Seat" is one of their more underrated epics.

 

Roj M30 wrote: Biff Tannen wrote: Like infandous, I was pretty disappointed when The Rainmaker came out, especially since it was the first new TFK record after I got into them.  But I, too, over time liked it more, and enjoy most it now.  And, like infandous again, I do not like "Sword of God" at all.  I said earlier that there are very few TFK songs I flat-out dislike, and that one would be at the very bottom of the list, if I had to rank all of their songs from 1 to whatever. Changing albums here, even though I think Adam and Eve is near the bottom of the list, too, the ending triumvirat of "Timelines," Driver's Seat" and "The Blade of Cain" is fantastic.  In fact, I think "Driver's Seat" is one of their more underrated epics.   This just shows the diversity of opinions here .   Infandous and Biff detest Sword Of God with a passion, whereas for myself and Pablo it's our favourite song on the album, and Angelmk is a fan of it too.  I always tend to love TFK's "rockers" and this is one of my favourites of those.  I just love that chorus and the instrumental break is outstanding.   Rainmaker was the second album I got by TFK.  My first was Stardust We Are and I was just totally blown away by that.  I saw the flak that Rainmaker got but it was very very cheap......so I got it, thinking that "if I like this one then TFK are really the band for me".  I did, and they are .  I really like the album, there's a couple of tracks that don't go anywhere but the longer tracks are alll superb.  Then there's the aforementioned Sword Of God (my fave on the album) and the awesome Red Alert, which must be the greatest ever track to only last 1:13 or whatever.  That should have been extended to become a 12 minute monster epic.

Well, actually it was,  it's called Road To Sanctuary.  Same melody as the main melody for that song, same time sig even, just different tempo and different beat emphasis (and, of course, much shorter).

Like I said, I like that album pretty well now.  As someone else mentioned, I like them all really, just some I like a lot better than others   A&E is at the bottom of my list, though I love A Vampires View, Babylon (now there is a song that should have been expanded!), Timelines, and Blade Of Cain.  My problem with that album is that the longest track, Love Supreme is practically unlistenable for me.  I don't much care for Cosmic Circus or Starlight Man either.  The title track is okay, and Driver's Seat has some good moments but I find it a fairly incoherent and disjointed epic track (but much better than LS).