New Subgenre: Rock Andaluz

clarke2001 wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: http://progfreak.com/home/music.xhtml?path=tags/ethnic/andaluz Any help completing that list is greatly appreciated. All you need is to create an account and assign the tag - and any genre or other tag. You don't have to decide between Symphonic, Jazz or Andaluz, any combination is possible. Sorry Mike, your posting of Andaluz tag option doesn't help this discussion even a little bit. I have the utmost respect for you, your work, and your website. But Andaluz is one among twenty sub-tags there and carries no credibility to discuss here whether Prog Andaluz is a valid as a PA prog subgenre or not. Having dozens of tags is a great thing to pin-point an artist and attract a listener in a most visual and analytical way possible, but if you have had only 10-15 subgenres on PF, that would carry some weight as an well-established genre in the artistic and social context (and could be taken into account while discussing it here).

You're right in pointing out that the fact that Andaluz exists as a tag at PF doesn't help the discussion here. However, if the discussion here takes its inevitable course and Andaluz is not created as a sub-genre here, Some of those who like the idea of compiling a list of progressive albums in that style are invited to do that at PF.

Mr ProgFreak wrote: http://progfreak.com/home/music.xhtml?path=tags/ethnic/andaluz Any help completing that list is greatly appreciated. All you need is to create an account and assign the tag - and any genre or other tag. You don't have to decide between Symphonic, Jazz or Andaluz, any combination is possible.

Sorry Mike, your posting of Andaluz tag option doesn't help this discussion even a little bit.

I have the utmost respect for you, your work, and your website. But Andaluz is one among twenty sub-tags there and carries no credibility to discuss here whether Prog Andaluz is a valid as a PA prog subgenre or not.

Having dozens of tags is a great thing to pin-point an artist and attract a listener in a most visual and analytical way possible, but if you have had only 10-15 subgenres on PF, that would carry some weight as an well-established genre in the artistic and social context (and could be taken into account while discussing it here).

topofsm wrote: If this does get anywhere I think we should make a 'world music influenced prog' type genre (not necessarily with that name). I don't really give a crap about whether we include rock andaluz, but I'm just saying that the 'world prog' subgenre would be a lot easier to maintain. We could even throw the Raga rock bands in there so there wouldn't be as pointless of a subgenre.

This is actually a very good idea, but I'm not sure where one would draw the line on what counts as "world music". Would it simply be rock influenced by the folk traditions of countries besides the US and Britain?

Petrovsk Mizinski wrote: I propose the tech/extreme/black/depressive/doom genre. In fact why not propose another 1000000 genres while we are at it.

Hey, don't you have some goofy grindcore noise to take off the market for us? Now, let people who like real music get to talkin' about stuff that matters, got it?

Anyway, there is a definite stylistic similarity between many of the groups suggested by ProgressiveAttic. Its enough of a difference to mark them apart from progressive artists from other regions and with different approaches to music.

I propose the tech/extreme/black/depressive/doom genre.
In fact why not propose another 1000000 genres while we are at it.

Not this old chestnut again!

there have been a few serious discussions about RPI's validity as a separate genre. And, just as often, we have people offer up groups like Area as being an example of why RPI is not a very apt description for a genre.

If one would pick & choose amongst groups in any genre, one will find some that are at the edge of the genre, and could be arguably be settled in another genre. Indeed, if and when there is a sufficient case or arguement for doing so, PA has shown itself very open-minded to doing so. Emphasis on a sufficient case being presented, not just "'cause I think so".

Krautrock also has its' own "sound". And just like RPI, not all bands from Germany are slotted into Krautrock because of their country of origin.

Are there some commonalities in some nations' musical scene ? Yes. Are there enough to justify more Country based genres ? No. Andaluz has been debated to death. And the end result is the same - the Andaluz part is stretched thinly when it comes to identifying a sufficient number of artists that could constitute a separate genre of Prog Andaluz. The downfall comes when reviewing this list of artists and finding too much variety to appose a description.

You can't have ten different sub prog andaluz sections containing 3-4 bands each.

Sooooo , if anyone really wants to pursue the matter, here is my advice - 1) assemble a list of bands that would make up the genre; 2) review the list very closely to ensure it is not comprised of bands clearly identifiable under other established PA genres (i.e. Area is in JR/Fusion not RPI for a good reason); 3) ask yourself if the andaluz influence is the dominant & most important component to the bands sound (see # 2); 4) prepare yourself for the probability that there are not enough artists with enough common elements in their music to truly constitute a separate genre; 5) ask for other examples of national musical traditions that do not, nor will not make up a separate genre (France's chansonnier, American Pop, Quebec traditional folk, along with europeen & other regional folk traditions).

Finally, feel free to continue the discussion. But only if you have something new to offer. Repeating the same old arguements won't succeed any more than they have in the past.

SO, let's see the list. Not a dozen .

Oh well. Both kraut and RPI have far stronger credentials than Rock Andaloon as far as I'm concerned.

I support Rock Andaluz as a separate subgenre :)

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: I was part of this discussions, at least the latest two times    Geografic based genres are wrong, the only exception is Rock Progresivo Italiano.   In the case of the Andaluz bands, some are mainly Symphonic, others are Jazzo riented and there's even one that is probably being moved to Prog Related. Triana for example is a 100% Symphonic band with Flamenco elements, but their central sound is in Symphonic.   This has been dicussed at least 5 times I remember and rejected all of them.   Cheers   Iván

Even some of the RPI bands don't really fit in well with the other RPI bands, my main example being Area.