Flower Kings Appreciation Thread

M27Barney wrote: Roland113 wrote: M27Barney wrote: The doorway is also my fave SB song !!! Then again I re-interpret the Doorway to be a hot slice of crumpet-pie all juicy and inviting Barney, I think that may have been the funniest that that I've "heard" you say.  I'm going to give the song a listen on the way home tonight with that interpretation and see where it leads me.  Who knows, if I take the same mentality, I may be able to listen to the three solo CD's that I have of Neal's that I find to be entirely too preachy.  mmmm - Crumpet "Crumpet" - Maybe different Anglo/American interpretation?

I interpreted crumpet to be something similar to strumpet . . . I think it was the reference to both "juicy and inviting" so yes, I will stand by my "mmmm" comment.

infandous wrote: M27Barney wrote: infandous wrote: M27Barney wrote: Roj M30 wrote: infandous wrote: Roland113 wrote: M27Barney wrote: Anyway - Who mentioned Spock's Beard V - I realised that I had bought this CD and again NOT GIVEN IT A SPIN !!! - Did so last night, Track 1 is good and the short tracks so-so - But the EPIC last TRACK IS AWESOME (and thats on first listen !!!!) - Shall give it a 2nd spin....... Thats Snow and V that had gone un-listened in my CD collection....... Just wondering if I have any others that I've bought and then ignored.... V is a great one Barney, one of their best only exceeded by Snow in my opinion.  I'm in agreement with you regarding the bookends.  Both "At the End of the Day" and "Into the Great Nothing" are two of their best.  I'm with you in that everything between the two is marginal at best.  I think if the middle songs were better, this could make a run at Snow for my favorite Beard album. V is easily their best album, and Snow their worst.  In my opinion, of course.  I actually find the short songs, with the exception of All On A Sunday, to be quite good.  Especially Thoughts Part 2 just kicks butt, by far the best of their Gentle Giant like numbers.  The ballad, Goodbye to Yesterday, is one of the few I enjoy by Morse for some reason.  I just think it is quite lovely and very well done.  Of course, my favorites are the first and last tracks, with The Great Nothing still being my favorite epic by that band (and possibly even Morse himself...........though I really like the epics on Sola Scriptura and the "?" album, which is an epic on its own).   I thought I'd chip in here .   V is the best I've heard by Spocks Beard.  The book-end tracks are certainly the best and I find it hard to split those two, but I really like it all except All On A Sunday, which grates a bit for me.  The first and last tracks are my 2nd and 3rd fave Beard tracks, after The Doorway, which is my favourite.   I'd rate Snow as my second favourite so far although I confess  I only have four SB albums.  I don't have anything after Neal left nor do I have anything by Neal solo.  You guys know my taste well enough.  What would you recommend me to get from the post-Neal era SB and from Neal's solo output?  The doorway is also my fave SB song !!! Then again I re-interpret the Doorway to be a hot slice of crumpet-pie all juicy and inviting  I suppose Morse is tallking about Jesus again  Who is this Jesus geezer anyway....I have one Neal Morse,  CD1 isn't bad but CD 2 is appallingly preachy and is like a Billy graham surmon put to music the CD is Testimony I think......I have it in a box set woooooo...... Bought it off ebay for a song - probaly from an atheist who just couldn't stomach CD 2..... The Doorway was written during his partying days, before he was a born again Christian, so I doubt very much it's about Jesus.  In fact, I recall an interview with him from 99 or 2000 I think, where he said that what he loved about prog was that he could write lyrics without having to worry about whether they had any meaning or not.   In other words, none of the early Spock's Beard songs are about anything at all.  He just wrote words that fit the music, much like Jon Anderson used to do with Yes. Isn't Morse from the deep south? Thus I'd expect him to be a Loon-bomb Baptist, he certainly fits the bill with his Brother Lee Love impersonation, thought he's been brought up to believe that the world is only 6000 years old and all that mularki Nope, he's from California originally.  Was born in Van Nuys, which is more or less part of L.A.  He lives in the deep south now though.

infandous wrote: M27Barney wrote: Oh well - without childhood indoctrination I have far less sympathy for Neal then, Born-Again christians are far worse than those forced to believe - And I should know as my mother has found the christian god at the age of 70 - she forgets all her wild younger days when clearly Dionysus was the god most likely to get her patronage Now THAT is a god I can support

infandous wrote: M27Barney wrote: infandous wrote: M27Barney wrote: Oh well - without childhood indoctrination I have far less sympathy for Neal then, Born-Again christians are far worse than those forced to believe - And I should know as my mother has found the christian god at the age of 70 - she forgets all her wild younger days when clearly Dionysus was the god most likely to get her patronage Now THAT is a god I can support Well I drink Beer, but the mrs likes a bottle or three of red wine at a weekend...The Greeks didn't have Holt's Bitter...... And sadly, neither do I

Edited by Roj M30 - December 11 2009 at 05:50

M27Barney wrote: When was the last time you had a pint of Joey's finest Roj ? About the time that Adam & Eve were strolling about the Garden of Dreams ?

Guys guys guys, there is more to this world than beer and crumpets.  If you continue in this self consuming fire of corruption your style of life will kill you.

Roland113 wrote: Guys guys guys, there is more to this world than beer and crumpets.  If you continue in this self consuming fire of corruption your style of life will kill you.

progrules wrote: Roland113 wrote: V is a great one Barney, one of their best only exceeded by Snow in my opinion.  I'm in agreement with you regarding the bookends.  Both "At the End of the Day" and "Into the Great Nothing" are two of their best.  I'm with you in that everything between the two is marginal at best.  I think if the middle songs were better, this could make a run at Snow for my favorite Beard album.   Sorry to stumble in on this discussion a little late but I will have to ask this to Roland since he's the big Beard fan of the bunch. Do you really think Snow is better than V ??? I can hardly believe this but I noticed this more often with other reviewers as well in the past by reading reviews of both albums. Now, I know both albums quite well I believe but where I do notice the sheer class with V (and then indeed mainly the two epics) I fail to hear it when I listen to Snow. A good album for sure, but why do you think it's excellent and even better than V ? Is it a couple of songs that stand out on Snow or is it the whole thing or maybe even the concept that does the job here ? I'm anxious for your answer so I can solve this long lasting mystery now ...

Hey Henk,

An emphatic Yes! 

I personally find "Snow" to be on par with "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" from a musical standpoint.  No there isn't a big epic twenty minute long song on the CD, but there's a slew of great songs that lead beautifully into one another.  I think every song is at least very good with the exception of "Carrie" (which is awful).  There are also some stand out songs, "Devil's Got my Throat" and "Long Time Suffering" are both fantastic rockers while "Wind at my Back" is a solid anthem. 

In addition, the last half hour of the CD is simply stunning to me.  Everything "Freak Boy" to the end is just a dazzling display of both musicianship and songwriting.  The emotion builds perfectly throughout that ending such that by the end of it you're actually appreciative on Neal's little thank you at the end of CD two. 

So to answer your initial question, I'll take answer D, all of the above.  There are stand out songs yet the whole thing is solid and Neal manages the emotion and intensity of the concept beautifully throughout the entire double CD.

Now with that being said, I'd certainly say that "V" is a proggier CD and that "At the End of the Day" is often my favorite Beard song (some times it's "At the End of the Day", sometimes it's "The Light") so yes, "V" does certainly have it's merits.  The songs in the middle of "V" however drop the overall rating of the CD to a four star CD in my opinion.  Both "All on a Sunday" and "Goodbye to Yesterday" are bad if not awful and the other two in the middle are good at best.  I realize that I'm in the minority on this next statement, but "The Great Nothing" is only a good epic in my opinion.  I find it way too similar to "All of the Above", I don't know which was released first (both were in 2000) but you can tell they were being written at the same time. 

Also, "The Great Nothing" suffers one of my pet peeves in that the song ends about two minutes before the track is over.  I don't understand why prog artists feel the need to hold something out at the end of an epic to give it more time.  The last two minutes of the song is just one chord being held out, it's anticlimactic, it's just padding the numbers to see who can have the longer epic.  Roine Stolt did the same thing at the end of "I am the Sun", "All of the Above" has two minutes of pad on the end and even "Milliontown" by Frost* has a minute of stupid at the end.  I guess that was the running gag in 2000 as that's when the first three were released but Milliontown didn't come for another six years.

So, I kind of rambled a bit there, but I hope that answers your question.  Basically, I think that "Snow" is a great CD the whole way through, though proggy only in the sense that it is a concept.  On the other hand, I don't think "V" is as good as the majority of Beard fans.

(See, I can write a long post if I wake up early enough on Saturday to write while the wife and child are still asleep, ahh, these are the quiet moments of my life)

^  If you want something epic-esque, you could probably treat everything from "Freak Boy" on as an epic or for that matter, the entire double CD as a giant one, everything pretty muci flows one into the next.

We'll have to talk about "The Light" tomorrow or something.  It's been a while since I've listened to it, though it is the origin of my avatar (I am the Catfish Man).

Regarding the post Morse CD's, I'd give them a collective rating of "ok", probably three and a half stars.  I think there are some awful songs on them, things that Nick shouldn't consider singing.  There are a few good songs, but certainly nothing on par with the best songs of the Neal Morse era.  The best songs from the era would be the "A Guy Named Sid" series, "She is Everything", "The Ballet of the Impact", The "As Far as the Mind Can See" series and "Rearranged" though those would all be four star songs in my opinion, not a five star among the bunch.

Incidentally, "The Doorway" is indeed a fantastic song by them, I rank that as my third favorite behind only the other two that I was talking about ("The Light" and "At the End of the Day"). 

If you like "The Doorway" I strongly recommend renting the Spock's Beard DVD, Don't try this at home.  It features a really neat version of the song.  I won't give away the secret for those of you who haven't seen it yet, but that song is the highlight of the DVD.

progrules wrote:   Sorry to stumble in on this discussion a little late. Do you really think Snow is better than V ???

V is an awesome album, but come on how can Snow not beat it? Snow, besides being bigger and better, has an overture and somewhat of a story. I mean come on.