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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Online
Points: 66290
Posted: August 28 2009 at 13:18
Gates is one of my least favorite Yes songs. I don't like the sound of the guitar or keyboards on that song. I'm not sure which it is but whichever it is I don't like the sound. That is the nonmusician in me, that I don't even know which instrument it is that is making the sound.
I enjoyed very much the latest cd from Simon Says "Tartigrade" and the song "Brother where you bound" where the band played a hommage to the Yes's song the Gates of Delirium.
Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
Posted: August 28 2009 at 14:55
American Khatru wrote:
Padraic wrote:
American Khatru wrote:
J-Man wrote:
I actually don't love Relayer as much as many other people do. It's a great album, but far from my favorite. Gates of Delirium is one of my favorite Yes songs, but (sorry) I actually could live without Sound Chaser and To Be Over.
-Jeff
Yeah, I'll confess to being with you to an extent on that (notice I said "what many others consider to be..."). It has to be that most posters who shout to the heavens about that record are really talking about Gates, a few are adding Sound Chaser, and I'd really like to know if any are adding To Be Over.
I'm not one of them - I love side 2 just as much as side 1.
Not that you need to explain yourself or your tastes but, er, would you care to? I don't say that with any accusation friend, I'm just honestly curious.
Sound Chaser is maybe the most ferocious track in the Yes catalog - I love the jazzy feel Moraz brings to it, some of Alan White's best drumming, some of Howe's best guitar playing, and the funky riff Squire delivers after "cha-cha-cha" should be able to get anyone grooving. They then contrast that ferocity with something tranquil, very calm and soothing, and yet there is a majestic feel to the end of "To Be Over". In a way, the second side mirrors the first in that there is aggression followed by calm followed by a hopeful spirit.
Truly a masterpiece made only more remarkable by virtue of the fact that it followed one of the most stupendous achievements in progressive rock - something that surely gives testament to Yes being at the summit of classic progressive rock (one can feel free to place the "giant" of their choice, e.g. Genesis alongside if need be).
Joined: March 28 2009
Location: New York
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Points: 732
Posted: August 28 2009 at 15:07
Padraic wrote:
American Khatru wrote:
Padraic wrote:
American Khatru wrote:
J-Man wrote:
I actually don't love Relayer as much as many other people do. It's a great album, but far from my favorite. Gates of Delirium is one of my favorite Yes songs, but (sorry) I actually could live without Sound Chaser and To Be Over.
-Jeff
Yeah, I'll confess to being with you to an extent on that (notice I said "what many others consider to be..."). It has to be that most posters who shout to the heavens about that record are really talking about Gates, a few are adding Sound Chaser, and I'd really like to know if any are adding To Be Over.
I'm not one of them - I love side 2 just as much as side 1.
Not that you need to explain yourself or your tastes but, er, would you care to? I don't say that with any accusation friend, I'm just honestly curious.
Sound Chaser is maybe the most ferocious track in the Yes catalog - I love the jazzy feel Moraz brings to it, some of Alan White's best drumming, some of Howe's best guitar playing, and the funky riff Squire delivers after "cha-cha-cha" should be able to get anyone grooving. They then contrast that ferocity with something tranquil, very calm and soothing, and yet there is a majestic feel to the end of "To Be Over". In a way, the second side mirrors the first in that there is aggression followed by calm followed by a hopeful spirit.
Truly a masterpiece made only more remarkable by virtue of the fact that it followed one of the most stupendous achievements in progressive rock - something that surely gives testament to Yes being at the summit of classic progressive rock (one can feel free to place the "giant" of their choice, e.g. Genesis alongside if need be).
Now that's a cogent argument for what's going on with side 2. I like it, I'll have to think about it. Thanks Padriac.
Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
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Points: 7826
Posted: August 28 2009 at 19:00
What are your thoughts about Tony Kaye? I really think he is a horrible keyboard player, and I have various stories to share as to why, if you're interested. What do you guys think of him?
Joined: March 02 2009
Location: Australia
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Points: 19643
Posted: August 28 2009 at 19:26
Hmmm...
Don't mind Kaye, can't say I'm a fan though. I really can't think of anything at all that sets him apart from any other YES keyboard player, or indeed, any other pianist.
Joined: November 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Posted: August 28 2009 at 19:42
J-Man wrote:
What are your thoughts about Tony Kaye? I really think he is a horrible keyboard player, and I have various stories to share as to why, if you're interested. What do you guys think of him?
Prog keyboards don't really blow me away - maybe when I was in high school, but I've seen so many classical pianists play at levels beyond those even considered by prog keyboards that they really have to do something truly spectacular to impress me. A "killer solo" isn't enough.
that being said, I love Tony Kaye's work on "The Yes Album." His dirty organ on "Yours is No Disgrace" is awesome, and his piano work on the rest of the album is nice. I don't think Yes would become much if he stuck around, but for the time he was around, I think he did a good job.
Joined: November 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Posted: August 28 2009 at 20:05
progkidjoel wrote:
^^Does this do the trick, as far as impressing you goes?
in what sense? It's a rather nice melody (I like Kevin Moore a lot in general) but it doesn't "blow me away" by its technical complexity.
I guess I wasn't clear: as far as "virtuosity" goes, prog keyboards pale in comparison to professional pianists. That's not to say that there isn't some great keyboard work in prog. I just find that when prog keyboards try to "show off," they're rather hard to take seriously - fast playing does not a good keyboardist one make.
like there's that one Rick Wakeman solo video kicking around, and I always see it recommended to "show off Wakeman's incredible playing," and really, if you're impressed by that, well, you're rather impressionable.
bottom line: overhyped prog "virtuosity" does not really impress me. Creativity impresses me. I think Tony Kaye, Rick Wakeman, Patrick Moraz, Kevin Moore, Jordan Rudess etc. all have their wonderful, impressive creative moments, but when they try to "impress" by playing really really really fast, I kinda sigh and tune out.
Joined: March 02 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 19643
Posted: August 28 2009 at 20:12
^^I know the video you mean... Its on the ABWH DVD, and, well, I'm super impressed by it
With that video, I was wondering if it was more keyboards you didn't like over piano...
I kind of get what you mean with the showing off aspect - Especially with Dream Theater... It seems to me like they're still in their "Mummy, look at me!" phase when it comes to speed...
Joined: November 14 2006
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Points: 66
Posted: August 28 2009 at 20:20
progkidjoel wrote:
^^I know the video you mean... Its on the ABWH DVD, and, well, I'm super impressed by it
With that video, I was wondering if it was more keyboards you didn't like over piano...
I kind of get what you mean with the showing off aspect - Especially with Dream Theater... It seems to me like they're still in their "Mummy, look at me!" phase when it comes to speed...
Sometimes, they remind me of DRAGONFORCE
this is not meant to sound condescending; I am honestly curious and interested in the response!
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12732
Posted: August 28 2009 at 23:02
Sorry for coming back to Relayer, but I am with those that love Gates of Delirium but don't really care about side two. I just can't get into Sound Chaser, too much noise for me, and I can't stand the "Cha cha cha" thing; I liked the vocal live version included in the box set "The word is live" a little bit more, that one's got some really beautiful moments. To be over has a rather beautiful melody, but I think it goes on for too long, that one should have been 5 or 6 minutes long, then it would have been really beautiful. I like much more the insrumental version Steve Howe's done with that song.
As far as Tony Kaye is concerned, I've never really been impressed with him, but have no reason to hate his work, I guess it's just OK.
Joined: March 28 2009
Location: New York
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Points: 732
Posted: August 29 2009 at 05:41
^^ Padriac's analysis (of Relayer, above) might be a way in - give a try to listening to it with those things in mind for a while.
Hey all, you ever notice the thing that happens to the snare in Sound Chaser? Can you explain it (maybe someone knows what went on in the studio and why)? The snare is off the first half of the song (for sure - I think I hear it on after the long break). At the start, after the dialogue with drums, keys and bass, White takes that big solo while Moraz tinkles away nicely on the ivories. As White winds down into playing the beat, you can hear what sounds like the eq on the snare drum changing, like a parametric eq where the frequency is dialed down as he plays. Or maybe something else is happening. It's not the whole kit, it's just that one drum. In any event, I don't think I've heard that anywhere before.
Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
Posted: August 29 2009 at 05:50
progkidjoel wrote:
^^
Well said... As far as Wakeman goes on Keyboards, I'd actually say TFTO is his true pinnacle with YES.
Actually I'd call that a mediocre effort, but that's mostly for the laziness on Revealing. The Remembering and The Ancient are quite good for Rick, and Ritual is average.
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
Posted: August 29 2009 at 05:57
Mosis wrote:
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
I don't think Wakeman is that spectacular?
*cough* *cough* *cough*
You cite Fragile as a favorite. Listen to it CLOSELY. Put on some quality headphones and turn the volume up. Pick Wakey's parts out from the rest of the crowd when they are playing ensemble. Do the same with CTTE and GFTO. You'll learn, young one. You will learn.
ugh, don't patronize me. I've heard classical pianists play pieces more facemelting than the dirtiest prog keyboard solo, so forgive me if I'm not bowing down to the overhyped pretentious w**ker that is Wakeman. I know how to listen to music, thank you.
But obviously you don't even know how to listen to what I say. Wakey is not like Emerson or Bardens or Banks. He is an ENSEMBLE player when he plays with Yes. Sure his solos are good, but he is absolutely magical in support. That's where he differs from your ordinary everyday keyboardist. Strangely enough, Moraz is quite good at that too, but he didnt' show it so well on Relayer.
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 2755
Posted: August 29 2009 at 06:00
Mosis wrote:
Let me further clarify. In general, I don't think the drums take a very prominent role in the music of Yes. They're just kind of in the background, doing their thing, with a creative fill or subtle roll on occasion.
In general, I agree with you. Fragile would be an exception, and White had an odd song or two here and there where he took centre stage, and I think his drumming excellently punched up the KTA tracks.
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
Posted: August 29 2009 at 06:03
J-Man wrote:
I actually don't love Relayer as much as many other people do. It's a great album, but far from my favorite. Gates of Delirium is one of my favorite Yes songs, but (sorry) I actually could live without Sound Chaser and To Be Over.
-Jeff
I think Gates is a very good track, but it's overrated. And I agree with Howe that To Be Over is a beautiful composition that needed some tweaking to bring it to it's full potential.
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