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J-Man View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2009 at 12:16
^^ Fair enoughThumbs Up

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2009 at 14:07
Originally posted by progkidjoel progkidjoel wrote:

^
As I said, I haven't actually seen them live with Benoit, and I'm sure its alot to do with the atmosphere of being there. I also Love DRAMA, but I like Jon Anderson more (Way more)...

I understand than Jon Anderson isn't exactly the most sane human around... But, (without trying to be rude), I don't really care! Its produced what is easily my all-time favourite music.

-Joel
Definitely redeemed yourself there, because Drama is a stellar album (I'm with J-Man).  And as far as Anderson being (as I hear) loopy, well, to continue your thought, his views and ways of thinking have been integral to this astounding stuff we have been so privileged to enjoy.  Anyone wants to tell me Jon's nuts?, well then he just goes on a list with other greats.  Captain Beefheart anyone?  I just listened to Heart of the Sunrise today, probably for the ten thousandth time, and Anderson's voice and words still ring with me.

Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2009 at 19:40
A few weeks ago, I posted a topic in which I expressed my bafflement at the praise received by Close to the Edge. I can't believe how blind (deaf?) I was.

Within a few days, Yes has risen to the top of my playlist, with "Close to the Edge" receiving the 2nd most plays next to "Gates of Delirium." Words cannot express what this band does to me (if they did, I wouldn't need to sing and dance!) I've listened to every album from The Yes Album to Going for the One. I just got GFTO recently, so I'm not as familiar with it, and I have a feeling it's weaker compared to its predecessors, but every other album is awesome, in the most literal sense of the word. 

Excuse me while I elaborate!

The Yes Album - wow, what a rocking album! "Yours is No Disgrace" has a lively, catchy main riff with killer backing keyboards and I just love the creeping guitar solo near the end. I can't believe I've gone 21 years without hearing "Starship Trooper." The ending, though simple, is great - I even learned the chords on guitar, and I don't even play! 

Fragile - the perfect album. I like every single track. I don't understand the bad rap the songs other than the "main 4" get. In fact I'd say "Roundabout" is one of the weaker tracks on the album. I love "We Have Heaven," and I love even more that it comes in again to close the album. I wish they did more stuff like "Five Percent of Nothing" - very creative.

Close to the Edge - what is there to say? Before, "Close to the Edge" was 19 minutes of chaos and noise - now, it's beautiful and just not long enough. I haven't listened to "And You and I" as much, so I'm not as familiar, but it has some wonderful melodies. I'm afraid to say that "Siberian Khatru" is a bit worn - it's the first Yes track I ever really got into, many years ago, and while the opening riff and harpsichord solo sounded great then, they sound a bit cheesy now.

Tales of Topographic Oceans - wow, what a beast! I can't say too much about this guy as I'm still picking away at it, but as I said before, I don't think it's as inaccessible as most Yes fans make it out to be. I'm taking it one track at a time, and it's going well. 

Relayer - one word: masterpiece. Their masterpiece. A prog rock masterpiece. Steve Howe OWNS this record and slays me every bit of the way. "The Gates of Delirium" is intense, psychedelic, creative, and original. "Sound Chaser" is aptly named - frantic and progressive, it's a welcome change from the vocal harmonies and keyboard choruses that abound in Yes' music, though I'm not sure I understand the "Cha cha cha, cha cha" bit yet...

... just listening to South Side of the Sky now. I just love Jon's vocals in the chorus, and I especially love the way the chorus comes back in the second time at the end of the track. Incredible elaboration on the theme.

some food for thought: in my opinion (whose else would it be?) Anderson, Squire, and Howe make the band. These three have consistently delivered phenomenal music with different drummers and keyboard players, and I can't imagine Yes without these guys. I don't think Rick Wakeman is that spectacular, and though I do love Bruford's drums on Fragile, I haven't noticed much difference between him and White. I'm probably not listening hard enough, so put me in my place if I'm out of line, but drums and keyboards are secondary to the guitar licks, bass riffs, and creative inspiration brought to the table by the Big Three I mentioned.


Edited by Mosis - August 26 2009 at 19:50
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2009 at 03:20
I don't think Wakeman is that spectacular?
 
*cough*  *cough*  *cough*
 
You cite Fragile as a favorite.  Listen to it CLOSELY.  Put on some quality headphones and turn the volume up.  Pick Wakey's parts out from the rest of the crowd when they are playing ensemble.  Do the same with CTTE and GFTO.  You'll learn, young one.  You will learn.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2009 at 06:52
^^

Well said... As far as Wakeman goes on Keyboards, I'd actually say TFTO is his true pinnacle with YES.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2009 at 06:58
Originally posted by Mosis Mosis wrote:

... and though I do love Bruford's drums on Fragile, I haven't noticed much difference between him and White...


Okay, glad to see you came around, welcome to the thread, but boy do I have to stand up for Bruford.  (I know you're pretty much just setting out on the Yes ship, so I'm not angryAngryWink.)  There are miles of differences between Bruford and White.  White is basically a smarter than average, great playing studio session musician (literally: he played with John Lennon, George Harrison, Donovan, lots of singles here and there).  Bruford is a great and interesting jazz-type drummer who decided to play rock, and a person with that mountainous sense of humor, and simultaneously sense of weight, in his style with both Yes and King Crimson.  On "And You and I" for instance, almost 4 minutes in and just after "call...", listen carefully.  Who would think of such a grand, spacious, orchestral approach?  Who would take such a patient and unusual approach?

Not White.  You should hear the live collection Yessongs.  Note the highly tasteful approach Bruford takes to "Heart of the Sunrise" on Fragile, then hear White play it on Yessongs.  It's a "bigger" approach in some regards I guess, you can like it all you want, but it's different because it's an arena-rock method that I think Bruford would have considered trite.  Perhaps more to the point is the difference between the studio and live "And You and I."  I already mentioned Bruford, but listen to that part of the track in the Yessongs version.  White lays a backbeat down and does rock fills!  This loses the whole point of the grandeur Bruford depicted.  And in the reprise variant at the end, the difference between the two is again plain.  I could go through many other examples, but this should suffice.

And as you go forward with the Yes catalogue (Tales, Relayer, etc.) the differences become no less apparent.  I love Tales, number 1 favorite prog album, and you can be assured if Bruford where there it would be quite different; who knows, perhaps also it wouldn't be as good somehow.

Don't get me wrong please, I like White (though of course not so much as Bruford).  Like whoever you like, but there is a difference. 


Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2009 at 07:01
A quick note on difference:

I'm not sure where I heard this, but I remember reading somewhere that Wakeman thought he couldn't' contribute anything more than Moraz to RELAYER.

I can't more than thoroughly disagree - Imagine if Wakeman was on the keyboard/guitar solo on TO BE OVER...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2009 at 07:04
Sure, may be.  But there's something very "Moraz" about Chaser, and even Gates.

Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2009 at 07:25
One other little thing, Mosis. I suggest you stop with Going for the One for a while. It really is sort of a cut-off point. I suggest sitting and slowly taking in what you already have and resist, in this day of easy access, the temptation to grab more Yes albums, whatever people's opnions of them might be. (If anything move backwards to Time and a Word and Yes.). You seem like a good sort with honest ears, so enjoy your full plate!!

Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2009 at 12:56
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

I don't think Wakeman is that spectacular?
 
*cough*  *cough*  *cough*
 
You cite Fragile as a favorite.  Listen to it CLOSELY.  Put on some quality headphones and turn the volume up.  Pick Wakey's parts out from the rest of the crowd when they are playing ensemble.  Do the same with CTTE and GFTO.  You'll learn, young one.  You will learn.

ugh, don't patronize me. I've heard classical pianists play pieces more facemelting than the dirtiest prog keyboard solo, so forgive me if I'm not bowing down to the overhyped pretentious w**ker that is Wakeman. I know how to listen to music, thank you. 

Originally posted by American Khatru American Khatru wrote:

Don't get me wrong please, I like White (though of course not so much as Bruford).  Like whoever you like, but there is a difference.  

I should clarify: Bruford's drumming only stood out for me on Fragile. Neither Bruford's work on CTTE or The Yes Album stood out more or less than White's work on Relayer. I'm sure there is a difference in their styles, I'm just saying there was nothing outstanding that led me to say "Wow, Bruford's killing White" here or vice versa... except on Fragile, like I said.

Anyway, I guess seasoned Yesfans don't agree. I'm sure my opinion will be ever more refined the more I listen. I was merely stating that at this stage of the game, I can tolerate different keyboard players and drummers, but I can't imagine a Yes without Chris, Steve,and Jon.


Edited by Mosis - August 27 2009 at 12:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2009 at 13:11
Let me further clarify. In general, I don't think the drums take a very prominent role in the music of Yes. They're just kind of in the background, doing their thing, with a creative fill or subtle roll on occasion. Compare this to Rush, for example, where the drums are in the forefront at all times, driving the music almost like another melody line. Rush with a different drummer would be a different band, whereas Yes has maintained its characteristic sound irrespective of the drummer. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2009 at 13:17
Originally posted by progkidjoel progkidjoel wrote:

^^

Well said... As far as Wakeman goes on Keyboards, I'd actually say TFTO is his true pinnacle with YES.


Although the great man himself would certainly disagree with you!! I think it was the toilet wall tiles that finally did it for himLOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2009 at 01:21
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:


Originally posted by progkidjoel progkidjoel wrote:

^^

Well said... As far as Wakeman goes on Keyboards, I'd actually say TFTO is his true pinnacle with YES.
Although the great man himself would certainly disagree with you!! I think it was the toilet wall tiles that finally did it for himLOL


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2009 at 07:02
Originally posted by Mosis Mosis wrote:

Originally posted by American Khatru American Khatru wrote:

Don't get me wrong please, I like White (though of course not so much as Bruford).  Like whoever you like, but there is a difference.  
I should clarify: Bruford's drumming only stood out for me on Fragile. Neither Bruford's work on CTTE or The Yes Album stood out more or less than White's work on Relayer. I'm sure there is a difference in their styles, I'm just saying there was nothing outstanding that led me to say "Wow, Bruford's killing White" here or vice versa... except on Fragile, like I said.

Anyway, I guess seasoned Yes fans don't agree. I'm sure my opinion will be ever more refined the more I listen. I was merely stating that at this stage of the game, I can tolerate different keyboard players and drummers, but I can't imagine a Yes without Chris, Steve,and Jon.
Originally posted by Mosis Mosis wrote:

Let me further clarify. In general, I don't think the drums take a very prominent role in the music of Yes. They're just kind of in the background, doing their thing, with a creative fill or subtle roll on occasion. Compare this to Rush, for example, where the drums are in the forefront at all times, driving the music almost like another melody line. Rush with a different drummer would be a different band, whereas Yes has maintained its characteristic sound irrespective of the drummer. 

Ah, I understand you better now, you make some very good sense.  I do have to say that the move from CttE to TfTO, from Bruford to White, is not some huge polar shifting thing.  Sure there are differences and changes, but it's not, as I infer from Mosis, like Yes had to go, "oh man, what do we do here," and tear down their entire sound and go a whole new way.  (And of course they, and their label!, wouldn't have wanted to do that anyway; they were successful doing what they were doing.)  What this all means is they didn't lose an essential writing partner.

Losing Bruford could easily have been a big blow, instead Yes went on to make only what you might say is THE GREATEST RECORD OF ALL TIMEBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smile !  Then lose Wakeman, only to be followed by... what many others consider to be THE (or their) GREATEST RECORD OF ALL TIMEBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smile !  We should consider more often the implications of that.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2009 at 08:58
I actually don't love Relayer as much as many other people do. It's a great album, but far from my favorite. Gates of Delirium is one of my favorite Yes songs, but (sorry) I actually could live without Sound Chaser and To Be Over.

-Jeff

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2009 at 10:04
Originally posted by J-Man J-Man wrote:

I actually don't love Relayer as much as many other people do. It's a great album, but far from my favorite. Gates of Delirium is one of my favorite Yes songs, but (sorry) I actually could live without Sound Chaser and To Be Over.

-Jeff
Yeah, I'll confess to being with you to an extent on that (notice I said "what many others consider to be...").  It has to be that most posters who shout to the heavens about that record are really talking about Gates, a few are adding Sound Chaser, and I'd really like to know if any are adding To Be Over. 
 
Gates, it goes without saying, is phenominal and powerful.  For me, Sound Chaser shocked and thrilled me when I first heard it, and I get a good time out of it sometimes still.  It's just to me there's something a little at odds about it, compared to their other material, almost like it were a song by some other band (the Moraz influence could be the explanation).  But no problem there - I'm all for interesting artists taking a risk or going off there usual map from time to time.  As for To Be Over, I'm still discomforted by the writing and production of it.  The best thing I can say is, "it's nice I guess."  However, I know that I can hold out through it and get to the latter half, which is epic and excellently done, really great.  It recalls and redeems the instrumental opening of the song.  It's fair to say (or an understatement) that Over is an "uneven" track.
 
 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2009 at 10:06
Originally posted by American Khatru American Khatru wrote:

Originally posted by J-Man J-Man wrote:

I actually don't love Relayer as much as many other people do. It's a great album, but far from my favorite. Gates of Delirium is one of my favorite Yes songs, but (sorry) I actually could live without Sound Chaser and To Be Over.

-Jeff
Yeah, I'll confess to being with you to an extent on that (notice I said "what many others consider to be...").  It has to be that most posters who shout to the heavens about that record are really talking about Gates, a few are adding Sound Chaser, and I'd really like to know if any are adding To Be Over. 
 


I'm not one of them - I love side 2 just as much as side 1.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2009 at 10:11
I still like side 2, but side one is far superior. On Close to the Edge both sides completely blow me away, but on Relayer it's only side one that does it for me. I would rate side one 9/10 and side two 5/10. Once I get to it, Relayer's getting a 3 from me.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2009 at 10:41
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by American Khatru American Khatru wrote:

Originally posted by J-Man J-Man wrote:

I actually don't love Relayer as much as many other people do. It's a great album, but far from my favorite. Gates of Delirium is one of my favorite Yes songs, but (sorry) I actually could live without Sound Chaser and To Be Over.

-Jeff
Yeah, I'll confess to being with you to an extent on that (notice I said "what many others consider to be...").  It has to be that most posters who shout to the heavens about that record are really talking about Gates, a few are adding Sound Chaser, and I'd really like to know if any are adding To Be Over. 
 


I'm not one of them - I love side 2 just as much as side 1.
Not that you need to explain yourself or your tastes but, er, would you care to?  I don't say that with any accusation friend, I'm just honestly curious.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2009 at 13:10
For many years, I would only ever play Gates and ignore side two completely. In recent years, I have grown to love the two other tracks ALMOST, but not quite as much. They reward you with patient listening repeatedly. 
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