All YES Appreciation Thread

progkidjoel wrote: ^ As I said, I haven't actually seen them live with Benoit, and I'm sure its alot to do with the atmosphere of being there. I also Love DRAMA, but I like Jon Anderson more (Way more)... I understand than Jon Anderson isn't exactly the most sane human around... But, (without trying to be rude), I don't really care! Its produced what is easily my all-time favourite music. -Joel

Definitely redeemed yourself there, because Drama is a stellar album (I'm with J-Man).  And as far as Anderson being (as I hear) loopy, well, to continue your thought, his views and ways of thinking have been integral to this astounding stuff we have been so privileged to enjoy.  Anyone wants to tell me Jon's nuts?, well then he just goes on a list with other greats.  Captain Beefheart anyone?  I just listened to Heart of the Sunrise today, probably for the ten thousandth time, and Anderson's voice and words still ring with me.

I don't think Wakeman is that spectacular?

Mosis wrote: ... and though I do love Bruford's drums on Fragile, I haven't noticed much difference between him and White...

Okay, glad to see you came around, welcome to the thread, but boy do I have to stand up for Bruford.  (I know you're pretty much just setting out on the Yes ship, so I'm not angry.)  There are miles of differences between Bruford and White.  White is basically a smarter than average, great playing studio session musician (literally: he played with John Lennon, George Harrison, Donovan, lots of singles here and there).  Bruford is a great and interesting jazz-type drummer who decided to play rock, and a person with that mountainous sense of humor, and simultaneously sense of weight, in his style with both Yes and King Crimson.  On "And You and I" for instance, almost 4 minutes in and just after "call...", listen carefully.  Who would think of such a grand, spacious, orchestral approach?  Who would take such a patient and unusual approach?

Not White.  You should hear the live collection Yessongs.  Note the highly tasteful approach Bruford takes to "Heart of the Sunrise" on Fragile, then hear White play it on Yessongs.  It's a "bigger" approach in some regards I guess, you can like it all you want, but it's different because it's an arena-rock method that I think Bruford would have considered trite.  Perhaps more to the point is the difference between the studio and live "And You and I."  I already mentioned Bruford, but listen to that part of the track in the Yessongs version.  White lays a backbeat down and does rock fills!  This loses the whole point of the grandeur Bruford depicted.  And in the reprise variant at the end, the difference between the two is again plain.  I could go through many other examples, but this should suffice.

And as you go forward with the Yes catalogue (Tales, Relayer, etc.) the differences become no less apparent.  I love Tales, number 1 favorite prog album, and you can be assured if Bruford where there it would be quite different; who knows, perhaps also it wouldn't be as good somehow.

Don't get me wrong please, I like White (though of course not so much as Bruford).  Like whoever you like, but there is a difference. 

Sure, may be.  But there's something very "Moraz" about Chaser, and even Gates.

ghost_of_morphy wrote: I don't think Wakeman is that spectacular?   *cough*  *cough*  *cough*   You cite Fragile as a favorite.  Listen to it CLOSELY.  Put on some quality headphones and turn the volume up.  Pick Wakey's parts out from the rest of the crowd when they are playing ensemble.  Do the same with CTTE and GFTO.  You'll learn, young one.  You will learn.

Edited by Mosis - August 27 2009 at 12:58

progkidjoel wrote: ^^ Well said... As far as Wakeman goes on Keyboards, I'd actually say TFTO is his true pinnacle with YES.

Although the great man himself would certainly disagree with you!! I think it was the toilet wall tiles that finally did it for him

Mosis wrote: American Khatru wrote: Don't get me wrong please, I like White (though of course not so much as Bruford).  Like whoever you like, but there is a difference.   I should clarify: Bruford's drumming only stood out for me on Fragile. Neither Bruford's work on CTTE or The Yes Album stood out more or less than White's work on Relayer. I'm sure there is a difference in their styles, I'm just saying there was nothing outstanding that led me to say "Wow, Bruford's killing White" here or vice versa... except on Fragile, like I said. Anyway, I guess seasoned Yes fans don't agree. I'm sure my opinion will be ever more refined the more I listen. I was merely stating that at this stage of the game, I can tolerate different keyboard players and drummers, but I can't imagine a Yes without Chris, Steve,and Jon.

Mosis wrote: Let me further clarify. In general, I don't think the drums take a very prominent role in the music of Yes. They're just kind of in the background, doing their thing, with a creative fill or subtle roll on occasion. Compare this to Rush, for example, where the drums are in the forefront at all times, driving the music almost like another melody line. Rush with a different drummer would be a different band, whereas Yes has maintained its characteristic sound irrespective of the drummer.

Ah, I understand you better now, you make some very good sense.  I do have to say that the move from CttE to TfTO, from Bruford to White, is not some huge polar shifting thing.  Sure there are differences and changes, but it's not, as I infer from Mosis, like Yes had to go, "oh man, what do we do here," and tear down their entire sound and go a whole new way.  (And of course they, and their label!, wouldn't have wanted to do that anyway; they were successful doing what they were doing.)  What this all means is they didn't lose an essential writing partner.

Losing Bruford could easily have been a big blow, instead Yes went on to make only what you might say is THE GREATEST RECORD OF ALL TIME !  Then lose Wakeman, only to be followed by... what many others consider to be THE (or their) GREATEST RECORD OF ALL TIME !  We should consider more often the implications of that.

J-Man wrote: I actually don't love Relayer as much as many other people do. It's a great album, but far from my favorite. Gates of Delirium is one of my favorite Yes songs, but (sorry) I actually could live without Sound Chaser and To Be Over. -Jeff

Yeah, I'll confess to being with you to an extent on that (notice I said "what many others consider to be...").  It has to be that most posters who shout to the heavens about that record are really talking about Gates, a few are adding Sound Chaser, and I'd really like to know if any are adding To Be Over. 

I still like side 2, but side one is far superior. On Close to the Edge both sides completely blow me away, but on Relayer it's only side one that does it for me. I would rate side one 9/10 and side two 5/10. Once I get to it, Relayer's getting a 3 from me.

For many years, I would only ever play Gates and ignore side two completely. In recent years, I have grown to love the two other tracks ALMOST, but not quite as much. They reward you with patient listening repeatedly.