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Quasar View Drop Down
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Points: 47 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2009 at 23:41
Originally posted by progkidjoel progkidjoel wrote:


This - Imagine going into a CD store without Genre sorting...
On that note, JB HIFI (Australian CD retailer) have the worst genre selections ever!
Marillion in "Heavy metal/Hard rock" in one store, and in "Urban Grooves" in another!? It has to be a joke!
They also put Porcupine Tree in "World Music" in one store and "Popular/top 40" in another, which is literally ridiculous.
Originally posted by Kestrel Kestrel wrote:

I don't really get the anti-genre sentiment. Humans have an innate want to categorize things - we've been doing it for centuries - and I think they're much more useful than detrimental. When you say symphonic prog, I have a general idea of what you are discussing. Yes, there are bands that transcend their genre or just flat out switch genres in the middle of their career, but I think those are the exception. Maybe not so much in prog, but in general, bands certainly stick to their genre. I don't see Rascal Flatts or Shania Twain playing anything but pop/country.
 
You have obviously not tried to convince the industry and/or the fans that ones 'given' genre is incorrect!
 
My point is, IF you had never heard of Marillion before, you would maybe never find them, unless you liked "Urban Groove" also. And you'd be sorry about that, eventually.
 
The problem is not the genres, it's who dictates a genre for a band! If they get it really wrong, it's detrimental to the band and fans.
 
Of course, it should help all concerned to make available, and to find new music.
 
At least in Prog, there could be/generally is, a general consensus and/or co-operation to put bands into reasonable genres, or multiple genres (might be better, as many prog bands cross over genres)? Which is what the originator of this Topic was trying to do, and I for one, appreciate the effort.
 
Oh, and there is no anti-genre sentiment here, just a point of view, which might be added to the genre issue!
 
Keith Turner
 
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DaysBeforeTomorrow View Drop Down
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Points: 34 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2009 at 09:36
I think there are just too many sub-genres. Prog Rock is already considered a niche of its own... to give it more than a handful of sub-genres is a mistake from the perspective of information architecture. 

Sometimes a data set is broken down into so many parts that it becomes inefficient to find what you're searching for and it's ultimately better to leave a few larger sets together rather than minute stratifications (relational database developers will know exactly what I'm talking about).

There really isn't a need to distinguish between neo-prog and symphonic prog, for example. Both are typically melodic music with hooks, and both feature orchestration in many songs. To split hairs over just how loud the string section or mellotron is seems a bit foolish. The average listener will probably enjoy both kinds of bands, and not realize there is any difference. Heck -- I'm one of the musicians in neo-prog and I don't know the difference, and it's not even important to know the distinction.

In Days Before Tomorrow, we call ourselves neo-prog only when talking to people in prog circles like this, but to the outside world, we are simply "melodic progressive rock," and even that requires explanation to a "typical" rock listener. Some of our music has really beautiful orchestration with cello, violin, viola, etc. but we're not a symphonic prog band as far as we're concerned. Some of our new stuff borders on prog metal, too, easily identified by bands like Dream Theater or Trivium, but the core of our sound is just melodic progressive rock. And to us, progressive means intricate musicianship, numerous time signature and key changes, longer song arrangements, conceptual lyrics and musical themes, etc.

Categorization is necessary, but when you've broken the data (artists) down into so many categories that you have to debate where a band fit, you've gone too far.

Just my humble opinion :-).
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Windhawk View Drop Down
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Points: 11401 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2009 at 16:03
Originally posted by DaysBeforeTomorrow DaysBeforeTomorrow wrote:

Categorization is necessary, but when you've broken the data (artists) down into so many categories that you have to debate where a band fit, you've gone too far.

Just my humble opinion :-).




I'm a big fan of simplification myself. But as long as I make an effort at this place, I need to follow the rules here too. And I have yet to discover a site doing a better job for those who enjoy listening to and/or make prog than this site ;-)

In my ideal world we would have 5 main categories at a site like this, perhaps with a select few secondary descriptors. But somehow, I don't think that would ever have a chance of becoming a reality ;-)
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/
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DaysBeforeTomorrow View Drop Down
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Points: 34 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2009 at 16:08
I'm not complaining -- you guys do a great job here. Just commenting :-).
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Points: 11401 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2009 at 16:26
Yup. And I'm not criticizing - just reflecting back that I understand and sympathize with your points of view :-)
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/
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