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StyLaZyn 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 4079
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 Topic: 'Borrowed' Music Sections
Posted: May 27 2009 at 07:14 |
OK, so I'm listening to Bacamarte - UFO and I hear a recurring guitar chord run and am thinking, where have I heard that before? Well then it hit me. It's from Triumph's Fantasy Serenade. Of course thinking Bacamarte is a quite talented Prog band, Triumph must have ripped them off. Checking the dates of release...um, no. YIKES!!! OK, it's just a small part but still, very very similar. And maybe not a rip-off, but it makes you wonder.
It's not often I hear bits of Prog songs that sound like other songs but this was just to obvious.
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Progosopher
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2009
Location: Coolwood
Status: Offline
Points: 6467
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Posted: May 27 2009 at 12:21 |
To paraphrase Ian Anderson: It's all the same seven notes organized by a different monkey. With the amount of music being produced in our modern age, similarities are bound to happen sooner or later, going back as far as you care to. After you've heard enough music, and have paid attention to it, you start to hear the influences whether they are intentional or not. This is not necessarily a rip-off, but that does happen. I'm neither familiar with Bacamarte  nor with much of Triumph's work, but I boldly say what I have heard doesn't do much for me  . I go through phases where virtually every new thing I hear reminds me of something else. Then it's just a matter of comparing how the monkeys put the notes together. 
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 4079
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Posted: May 27 2009 at 17:21 |
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After the "He's So Fine"/"My Sweet Lord" fiasco, I understand that George Harrison never allowed any music other than his played be in his home. Rumor or truth? A fellow musician told me this.
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progkidjoel
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 02 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 19643
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Posted: May 28 2009 at 03:47 |
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Well there's the classic Marillion - GRENDEL / Genesis - "SUPPER'S READY" catastprohe, not that bad though.
I believe the sections in question were GENESIS' "Apocalypse in 9/8" VS. The last 6 minutes of GRENDEL...
I love both though, so no problem for me.
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
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Points: 5482
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 22:37 |
King Crimson borrowed "In The Court Of The Crimson King" when they recorded most of "In The Wake Of Poseidon"
ELP borrowed pieces from many classical composers.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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St.Cleve Chronicle
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 02 2008
Location: Finland
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Points: 1131
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Posted: May 31 2009 at 03:55 |
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The main guitar melody in National Health's "The Collapso" sounds like a composition called "Theme one", which was written by George Martin for BBC Radio 1. Most of us prog fans might know the tune best from Van Der Graaf Generator's cover version that was a big hit in Italy. I think there's an MP3 of it in PA.
Don't know if that was intentional.
Pelle Miljoona, a Finnish punk artist borrowed the riff to one of his most famous songs, "Moottoritie on kuuma", from Genesis' "Dancing with the moonlit knight".
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The Hemulen
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Joined: July 31 2004
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Points: 5964
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Posted: May 31 2009 at 04:01 |
 Evolver wrote:
ELP borrowed pieces from many classical composers. |
I don't know if this post is tongue-in-cheek or not so if it is, excuse me for taking it seriously but... that's a whole different kettle of fish, isn't it? Reinterpreting classical works and giving full credit to the original composer is far removed from inadvertently (and I do think the majority of such cases are inadvertent) paraphrasing someone else's composition.
Edited by Trouserpress - May 31 2009 at 04:02
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Certif1ed
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Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
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Points: 7559
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Posted: May 31 2009 at 04:36 |
You mean as with Coldplay's "Vida La Vida" and Cat Steven's "Heaven"?
Dream Theater's "Pull Me Under" and Metallica's "One"?
Deep Purple's "Child In Time" and It's A Beustiful Day's "Bombay Calling"?
Deep Purple's "Space Truckin'" and Fifty Foot Hose's "Red The Sign Post"?
Black Sabbath's "Sweet Leaf" and Spooky Tooth's "Evil Woman"?
Metallica's "Welcome Home" (Sanitarium) and Bleak House's "Rainbow Warrior"?
Pink Floyd's "Saucerful of Secrets" and too many pieces by early Krautrock bands to mention?
Drum Circus' "Magic Theatre" and Gong's "Radio Gnome Invisible" trilogy?
I find all of these a bit close to be accidental/co-incidental.
Reworking someone else's ideas is nothing new, and not really an issue, as long as the original composers are credited, IMHO. Often, as some of these examples prove, the original can be improved on - "Child In Time", for example.
It can be difficult to tell whether the paraphrasing is done intentionally, or simply because the original idea is so strong it stuck in the subconscious somewhere. I quite often write something, then realise exactly what it is that I'm recycling...
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
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Posted: May 31 2009 at 09:28 |
Trouserpress wrote:
Evolver wrote:
ELP borrowed pieces from many classical composers. |
I don't know if this post is tongue-in-cheek or not so if it is, excuse me for taking it seriously but... that's a whole different kettle of fish, isn't it? Reinterpreting classical works and giving full credit to the original composer is far removed from inadvertently (and I do think the majority of such cases are inadvertent) paraphrasing someone else's composition.
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It was only half tongue-in-cheek. The composers on the early records weren't credited on the original releases.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
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Points: 29630
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Posted: May 31 2009 at 09:59 |
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Steven Wilson borrowed heavily from David Gilmour on Voyage 34
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: October 21 2005
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Posted: May 31 2009 at 10:15 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
OK, so I'm listening to Bacamarte - UFO and I hear a recurring guitar chord run and am thinking, where have I heard that before? Well then it hit me. It's from Triumph's Fantasy Serenade. Of course thinking Bacamarte is a quite talented Prog band, Triumph must have ripped them off. Checking the dates of release...um, no. YIKES!!! OK, it's just a small part but still, very very similar. And maybe not a rip-off, but it makes you wonder.
It's not often I hear bits of Prog songs that sound like other songs but this was just to obvious. |
The album "Depois Do Fim" was released in 1983 but it was in fact recorded in 1977. I can't remember well but some tracks were aired around 1978-1979.... 
Anyway, I think it was just coincidence; not the case here where a rapper sampled a neat symphonic prog band.
EDIT: nice to see in the comments there that a hip-hop fanboy is digging already in this "kinda music".
Edited by Atkingani - May 31 2009 at 10:17
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Guigo
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: May 31 2009 at 19:03 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Steven Wilson borrowed heavily from David Gilmour on Voyage 34
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But at least he returned the guitar riffs when he was finished with them. ;-)
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: May 31 2009 at 19:32 |
Certif1ed wrote:
You mean as with Coldplay's "Vida La Vida" and Cat Steven's "Heaven"?
Dream Theater's "Pull Me Under" and Metallica's "One"?
Deep Purple's "Child In Time" and It's A Beustiful Day's "Bombay Calling"?
Deep Purple's "Space Truckin'" and Fifty Foot Hose's "Red The Sign Post"?
Black Sabbath's "Sweet Leaf" and Spooky Tooth's "Evil Woman"?
Metallica's "Welcome Home" (Sanitarium) and Bleak House's "Rainbow Warrior"?
Pink Floyd's "Saucerful of Secrets" and too many pieces by early Krautrock bands to mention?
Drum Circus' "Magic Theatre" and Gong's "Radio Gnome Invisible" trilogy?
I find all of these a bit close to be accidental/co-incidental.
Reworking someone else's ideas is nothing new, and not really an issue, as long as the original composers are credited, IMHO. Often, as some of these examples prove, the original can be improved on - "Child In Time", for example.
It can be difficult to tell whether the paraphrasing is done intentionally, or simply because the original idea is so strong it stuck in the subconscious somewhere. I quite often write something, then realise exactly what it is that I'm recycling... |
Also Don & Dewey by It's a Beautiful Day, literally ripped off, Wring that Neck by Deep Purple, however the rip-off version of It's A Beautiful Day is pretty nice, and in times, I would prefer it over Purple's... Though that's not the case with Bombay Calling...
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: June 01 2009 at 07:34 |
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I often have felt Home by Dream Theater borrowed the lick from tool's 46 and 2.
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
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Points: 7559
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Posted: June 01 2009 at 15:31 |
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It doesn't seem to happen too much in Old School Prog - although I did notice a very interesting similarity between Wishbone Ash's "Lullaby" (Pilgrimage) and Genesis' "Entangled".
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
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Posted: June 01 2009 at 15:34 |
As I mentioned in my reviews, Dream Theater's "Through Her Eyes" has almost exactly the same melody as "The Boys Are Back in Town" by Thin Lizzy. Plus, the band sounds a lot like the Eagles.  LaBrie even sounds like Glenn Frey.
Also, the introduction to "Surrounded" on Images and Words is identical to the introduction of "Father to Son" on Queen II.
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: June 01 2009 at 15:41 |
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Well, there's always been a similarity I found between 3 songs, but it seems no one else notices them :(
These are Atom Heart Mother's middle section with the organ, which this sounds VERY similar to that from The Knife middle, slow, section, and The Prophet's(I think) by Yes...
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'Borrowed' Music Sections
