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M@X ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster Joined: January 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4077 |
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Overlooked albums cannot be in top 100 because they are overlooked that is why we have a forum and reviews ....
You can still use my SHORTCUT to list the TOP 100 Little Known But Highly Rated Studio Albums of All Time And tweak the query up to your taste.... |
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Prog On !
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Epignosis ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32566 |
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I do tend to agree. I think at this point there's too much weight given to number of reviews, which reduces the visibility of some other great albums (many of which I might have missed had this been implemented before). |
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rpe9p ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 31 2008 Location: Charlottesville Status: Offline Points: 485 |
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I think this is definitely a negative change. When a new album is released or a rare album with high ratings hits the 25th review, it would sometimes crack the top albums list, but it would always stabilize afterward and I would always check the album out when that happened. As the list is right now, it gives too much weight to the number of reviews, so bands like dream theater that are more well known get pushed way ahead of great albums with much higher ratings (btw I am a big DT fan so its not bias). This will apply not just to the top 100 list but to custom lists to it seems, so for example if i'm trying to search for symphonic prog albums, instead of finding albums that arent well known but have great ratings, ill see the entire (progressive) discography of yes and genesis. I like the idea of letting newcomers to the site see the classic well known albums, but I think the changes might have been overdone and it decreased the site's ability to get the word out about little known amazing prog albums. I understand that what I want is still not hard to find, it this isnt a horrible thing im losing sleep over, im just trying to make an argument for the other point of view. I think decreasing the weight you have given to the number of ratings would be a good idea. Thanks for the work you do continuing to improve the site. |
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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This is a good pointy Mike, an issue I always wondered about.
Before Internet, I used to buy albums I hated later, speciallyy because Prog is rarely played in the radios, much less in Perú. The last album I bought without reading reviews or listening samples was OVO, and I hated it, bought it only for the Peter Gabriekl name and wasn't reaklly a Peter Gabriel album.
Since them I read reviews and of course try to listen samplers, won't say it's perfect and i love every album,. but at least i know what go expect, I already paid too much money for albums like Love Beach, ABACAB, A La Carte, etc, only because I liked the band.
I will try, as a fact I will ask you to create a Symphonic account for:
In the Symphonic chart and cancel all except the ones for Debrewguy, Guigo and me (the one for E-Dub will be suspended because I believe he wants to focus in Neo Prog at least for a while. Thanks Mike
Iván
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topofsm ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 17 2008 Location: Arizona, USA Status: Offline Points: 1698 |
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After looking at the 1976 on list, there are albums which I consider classic prog. Hemispheres, Elegant Gypsy, Leftoverture. Wouldn't it be easier to just have the albums 1967-1980 and then 1980 on? Although most people agree prog lost popularity and seemed to lose quality in 1976, there are still some 'classic' as opposed to 'modern' prog albums in the years shortly after.
Then again, I'm a teenager, so my idea of 'classic' is probably different from most people here.
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Mr ProgFreak ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
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^ I like the top 100 list as it is, and I know you dealt with the newly released albums ... I just had that idea of splitting the list and thought that it might solve the problem elegantly, without tweaking the algorithm. Like I said, it's just a suggestion.
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M@X ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster Joined: January 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4077 |
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Mr. ProgFreak , pease have a second look of the recent TOP 100 algo. changes list and no more "new released album" is hunting the list anymore, or maybe I miss something.
All the TOP 100 album worht their place in my mind ?! But I understand your point, but PA cover the whole PROG so in the front page I would still go with the TOP 100 and I am open to create some shortcut list in the TOP PROG ALBUM tool page like the CLASSIC ERA. ?! |
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M@X ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster Joined: January 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4077 |
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Should we also add other ERAs ,
suggestion: - the dark 80s - The prog revolution era 1997+ Any better time frame important or era suggestions ? |
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M@X ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster Joined: January 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4077 |
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Prog On !
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M@X ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster Joined: January 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4077 |
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I just add the link to the shortcut Top 50 classic prog studio albums (1967-1975)
I'll have to work a bit of code for the 1976+ list thanks for the suggestion |
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Mr ProgFreak ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
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^ thanks, I'll have a look at the lists! But my suggestion was really to change the list on the front page. Many people see the list and then complain about newly released albums creeping into the top 100, or their favorite album from the classic era not being listed. Separating the classic era from the following albums on the front page emphasizes the importance of that era, while still allowing all the following albums in the separate list.
But it's only a suggestion ... ![]() |
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M@X ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster Joined: January 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4077 |
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Good job Epignosis and thanks for the suggestion Mr. ProgFreak !
I will take your consideration and create shortcut list to the 1. Top 50 classic prog studio albums (1967-1975) 2. Top 50 prog studio albums (1976-*) In the TOP PROG ALBUM tool sounds good ? |
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Prog On !
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Epignosis ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32566 |
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All you have to do to produce those lists for yourself is to use the year filter. Here are the results for the "classic" period you described: http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?ssubgenres=&salbumtypes=1&syears=1975&syears=1974&syears=1973&syears=1972&syears=1971&syears=1970&syears=1969&syears=1968&syears=1967&scountries=&sminratings=1&smaxratings=0&sminavgratings=0&smaxresults=100&x=56&y=4#list |
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Mr ProgFreak ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
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Sure, we got carried away ...
anyway, about the top 100 list: a while ago I made a suggestion, not sure if you read it so I'm posting it again: Instead of making one list of the top 100 prog albums, why not make two lists: 1. Top 50 classic prog studio albums (1967-1975) 2. Top 50 prog studio albums (1976-*) I think this could be very interesting ... and the most important prog albums would always be at the top. ![]() |
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M@X ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster Joined: January 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4077 |
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Please guys, allow this discussion to take place elsewhere "por favor"
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Mr ProgFreak ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
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You mean if you want to buy new albums, you go to the Prog Archives start page and look for reviews that get you interested in something? Well, I also read reviews occasionally, but usually I'll stick to albums that are highly rated by either a lot of people, or single reviewers that I can trust. For example, a 8/10 (4 stars) rating by avestin or Windhawk (together with a few tags, like "Symphonic Prog Rock" is good enough to give an album a try.
It's been a while since you reported the problems, and since then I've made a lot of changes. Besides, nobody else is reporting problems ... if you like you can try again and let me know if there are still any problems ... even if you decide not to use the website for playlist, ratings or tagging I would still be curious about those problems. |
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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Mr ProgFreak ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
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I think that when you want to expand your collection and you only rely on reviews, you really need a lot of time on your hands ...
![]() BTW: I would be curious which albums you get ... I guess you won't, but you can always use the PF playlist. You don't even need to submit any ratings or tags to put albums on the playlist ... ![]() Edited by Mr ProgFreak - May 16 2009 at 04:24 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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Do you imply I don't want to expand my collection Mike?
![]() ![]() ![]() I got more than 100 new albums last year and 200 DVD's, most of them from new bands....Or do you believe I only read reviews about albums that I know?
Don't get your logic......Do you really believe that If you don't focus on reviews only, then you don't want to expand your collection?
![]() Why can't I focus on reviews about new albums?
![]() What's the logic of that?
If I read a rating, probably I will have forgotten it in one minute, if I read a good review about an album, wuill remember it for a long time.
I don't say forget ratings, I say FOCUS PRIMARILLY ON REVIEWS, reviews matter more for me and ratings alone are worth very little for me, but how in hell does that means i want to have the same albunms?
Please explain me, I'm intrigued, I fiind absolutely no connection.
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 16 2009 at 01:43 |
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Mr ProgFreak ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
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I saw your posts about the .5 rating steps ... I know that you don't want the ratings removed. But I see so many posts where you tell people that they should focus on reviews only. IMO such a strategy only works for people who don't really want to expand their collection ... people who are content with the list of artists they know and just want to see what other people have to say about Yes and Genesis and *very rarely* ever check out new albums. For such people ratings indeed aren't very important. |
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