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Certif1ed 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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 Posted: May 03 2009 at 04:07 |
^EVERY music site/community has a high contingent of X is better than Y - it's a natural trait of music fans and you have to live with it.
Here it's generally expressed more eloquently and thoughtfully - not to mention passionately than on some sites I could mention, where if you don't agree that X is better than Y then you must suck.
I have yet to see an example of the user reviews being "undermined" by Collaborator reviews - they get lower priority, as was perfectly explained by Altaire.
A good review is one which not only contains an opinion (you are right here, all opinions are equal), but a review that expresses that opinion in a readable, informative and entertaining way.
A review which simply states "X is good" is of less interest than one which describes the sound and the way it makes the reviewer feel. Although the simple opinion review is as valuable as any other, the review itself is as useful as a button rating the music out of 5 - which we have as an alternative and addition already.
Reviewers who produce material of the second type consistently are recognised by this site - so this is a simple incentive to write the best reviews you can.
People often mistake self-consciousness for arrogance - and it seems a common trait of proggers that they tend to be self-conscious and analytical. This is reflected in the music, which is more complex, experimental and technical than other forms of rock music, as a general rule - and for fans of prog, this is BETTER.  |
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Ultime
Forum Newbie
Joined: August 25 2006
Location: Québec
Status: Offline
Points: 33
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 08:42 |
 Dean wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
[QUOTE=JJT9/8]
(By the way, someone tells you that 2 girls that you know nothing about want to go out with you.One has boobs and the other doesn't. Who are you going to choose?..I think I know the answer...
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I'd go with the other one...
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I'll go with neither of them - as a prog listener, I want to choose who I'm dating
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Ultime tentative
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 09:24 |
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^ whoa! that's some really bad quoting there!
Edited by Dean - May 04 2009 at 09:26
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What?
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progrockgurl
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 04 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 16:31 |
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Prog rock is coming back I believe it! Just heard Van der Graaf Generator is going on tour over the summer 2009 so sign me up!
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 16:39 |
progrockgurl wrote:
Prog rock is coming back I believe it! Just heard Van der Graaf Generator is going on tour over the summer 2009 so sign me up! |
Wonderful. We've never heard of VDGG before neither do we know that they are on tour this Summer. As the premier resource for Prog Rock on the internet we simply would not know this without you here to spam us about it!! Now take yourself off street team girl and stop harming the band you profess to want to share with the whole world. 
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Manuel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 09 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13352
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 18:10 |
I understand the "Arrogant" term on prog fans, since I've been one of them for many years, only to realize that there are quite many acomplished musicians in other genres. I used to look down to other people who listened to "radio" music as I called it, and did not know about the great music they were missing by not listening to prog.
Over the years, however, I also discovered that there are a lot of talented musicians in other genres, I discovered many great guitar, piano, bass and drum players in jazz, flamenco, latin, new age and even pop. As of today, though, I fail to find any good musicians in modern day hip hop, rap, and other popular music of these times. some have great voices, but fail to convince me witht the content of their music. However, there are many modern day great artists, and you can find them in a more underground scene. Try some of the alternative rock bands, like the airborne toxic event for example, and you'll find great music/musicians who could not be laveled as prog or pop, but create great music as well.
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Bitterblogger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 04 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1719
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 20:08 |
sealchan wrote:
One thing I do have to concede to pop music is that pop music does often exceed prog in two categories (can you name others?):
1. Quality of vocals: better singers in pop
2. Catchier melodies in pop, especially if producers and other non-musical professionals get involved
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Add #3. Widespread respectful coverage in the MSM.
And #4. Number of acts in the R & R HOF.
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Leningrad
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 7991
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 20:18 |
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no proggers are not arrogant *scoffs at MTV and strokes unkempt hair*
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Lucent
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 18 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 259
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 20:50 |
Leningrad wrote:
no proggers are not arrogant *scoffs at MTV and strokes unkempt hair* |
...You have just proved my arrogance with one post.
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 16913
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 21:38 |
Lucent wrote:
Alitare wrote:
Lucent wrote:
I hate to break it to myself, but my impression of the boards when I read the posts is a large, conservative arrogance. And I despise conservative notions.
This was later proven to me when the collaberators/admins had more priority over the common user reviews as of 1 or 2 years ago. I don't remember. I barely post here anyway.
...No offense. |
There is a system in play. And, if you contribute enough to the system, you will be given more priority. It rewards hard work and dedication to the site, not to mention weighs for assumed musical knowledge (who is more credible, someone who is sloppy, never writes reviews, and is lacking in musical knowledge, or an admin who has been writing reviews for an extended period of time and familiarizing themselves with music in general?) I mean, such a thing is at least somewhat subjective, but it is still a solid formula.
It isn't as if there is some sort of defining rift between admins and regular users. It is possible to gain that status (or at least a higher than normal status) if you want it badly enough.
Getting back on topic, I am not arrogant in my musical tastes in much a way. I feel that for a large part it is "you like what you like" way of things. Pop music is no better than prog (all opinion, you know)
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Thank you for proving my point in stating that X is better than Y and you have to work to be considerably better, a conservative notion.
It doesn't matter about the contributions to the forum or community whatsoever. My opinion is that equal to anyone else's opinion, and that should be represented on the site. However, what we have is that the user reviews are undermined by the administrator/collaberator reviews, which disgusts me, because it's so right winged that it's ridiculous.
I love this site, I hate this community for the exact reason of "X is better than Y", a stereotype of progressive fans that this site is reinforcing. |
Yeah, you figured me out. Mr. Right-wing, that's me.  We get that you don't like the site's policies, but you might wish to tone down some of this. Or rather, if it bothers you so much, why stay in a community you hate?
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 22:37 |
^ He's been putting out fire with gasoline
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
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Posted: May 04 2009 at 22:48 |
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What the hell do politics have to do with rating on a fricking music site. Get over the persecution complex!!!
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Starless
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 29 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 85
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Posted: May 05 2009 at 06:39 |
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Gawd there's a lot of whiny liberals on this post! Most modern pop (pap) musick sucks, end of. Arrogant and proud of it - ask the wife!
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Lucent
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 18 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 259
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Posted: May 05 2009 at 21:03 |
Deathrabbit wrote:
What the hell do politics have to do with rating on a fricking music site. Get over the persecution complex!!!
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It's a general basis. X leads to Y behaviour, so Y behaviour can be linked back to X.
Starless wrote:
Gawd there's a lot of whiny liberals on this post! Most modern pop (pap) musick sucks, end of. Arrogant and proud of it - ask the wife! |
Because conservatives don't whine more at all. No way. You don't turn on Faux News and see Bill O Reilly flip the lid towards innocent people. You don't see Jack Thompson try to ban video games even though he was revoked of his rights to law. No way.
Other than defending myself, I have nothing relevant to post in this topic. Then again, these last 3 posts had nothing to do with the post either.
Edited by Lucent - May 05 2009 at 21:07
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: May 05 2009 at 21:39 |
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Not necessarily limited to proggers though. I was a straight up metal head in High School and I was a music elitist. I would shred most people who like music I thought wasn't "good" and tell them how much it sucked. I was really an arrogant bast*rd. This was especially the case with any music I thought was "pop" I ragged on them the most. Pop in my opinion were most punk bands today, all radio music, rap, emo.
However, a lot of proggers I do know, or people into more artsy bands *cough TOOL cough* did tend to be pretentious or just a general a**hole. Something about liking more intelligent music I suppose.
I'd like to think I reformed my ways though. When it comes to music: To each their own.
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el dingo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2008
Location: Norwich UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7053
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Posted: May 06 2009 at 02:21 |
Deathrabbit wrote:
What the hell do politics have to do with rating on a fricking music site. Get over the persecution complex!!! |
Yeah I'm with you on this one. Apparently I'm one of these arrogant right-wing proggers too. Must be why I'm not afraid to mention my love of The Clash, The Faces, The Kinks, Manic Street Preachers and even MCR at any given opportunity. That's probably why I'm the proud possessor of a Trade Union card and have never voted Tory in my life too.
As for the reviewing system, it's not a pecking order but merely common sense. It's like the journalistic thing of staff reporters and freelances (I've been both so might know a little about it) - both have their places and the opinions of both are equally valid, but the staff guys are the backbone of the publication as they produce it virtually 24/7.
Politics on PA? No thanks.
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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el dingo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2008
Location: Norwich UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7053
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Posted: May 06 2009 at 02:32 |
Lucent wrote:
I love this site, I hate this community for the exact reason of "X is better than Y", a stereotype of progressive fans that this site is reinforcing. |
How is it possible to hate an entire community when most of us here on PA know hardly anything about each other?
I do not and cannot hate you because I have never met you. If you think everyone here is stereotypical, check out "Just For Fun". You might even like it, and it sure is apolitical. 
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: May 06 2009 at 03:51 |
Lucent wrote:
Leningrad wrote:
no proggers are not arrogant *scoffs at MTV and strokes unkempt hair* |
...You have just proved my arrogance with one post. |
My hair is MUCH more unkempt than his...
Do I win the arrogance prize?
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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el dingo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2008
Location: Norwich UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7053
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Posted: May 06 2009 at 03:53 |
^
My hair is so unkempt that I failed auditions for Ozric Tentacles AND The Levellers.
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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Lionheart
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 106
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Posted: May 06 2009 at 05:33 |
To some extent I like the kind of music I like because of my personality.
I think this is true for almost everyone - you have to identify with it on some level, and that's part of your draw to it. 1. Quality of vocals: better singers in pop
It depends - there are some great singers in prog (Francesco Di Giacomo for one).
2. Catchier melodies in pop, especially if producers and other non-musical professionals get involved
I agree with the "catchier melodies" part, but I disagree with the "non-musical professionals" part. If you take a look at songwriters who pumped out hit after hit (example - the songwriting teams at Motown during the heyday, and the stuff that came out of Philly in the 70's) you would have to *at least* acknowledge that they were professional songwriters (also McCartney, Rundgren and Brian Wilson). Pop comes off as a "lesser" music form to a lot of people, but in my mind, it's extremely difficult to write a brilliant pop song, and it shouldn't be underestimated or undervalued. People knock off Dream Theatre all the time, and the reason is because it's very easy to imitate. Nobody knocks off McCartney or Brian Wilson (with any real effect, anyway), because they are gifted songwriters. And, I'm sure any prog band would agree with me on that. Do you agree/disagree? Any life stories about having rehabilitated from being a prog snob? Any justifications for being more of a prog snob?
I don't think there's any justification in being a snob about any form of music. If you like it, you like it.
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