Genesis remastered SACD/DVD

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   I was looking forward to getting the Genesis soon to be released best yet  "Trespass", "Nursery Cryme", "Foxtrot", "Selling England" and "Lamb" albums in SACD format until i saw this on Amazon - 

"Nick Davis used to be a great engineer... what happened?, 1 Aug 2008 

By 
Jamie Tate (Hermitage, TN United States) - See all my reviews

Nick Davis has done amazing work in the past. Actually, ALL of his work up until these Genesis remixes was excellent! Has he lost his touch? Why do these Genesis sets sound so harsh? I wonder what Nick's reasoning for this is? Does he even realize this work is much worse than what he's capable of? He's a world class engineer so why did he make so many newbie mistakes with these Genesis remixes? Too much EQ? Really? That's what interns do when they're learning how to mix. 

It's not the compression that makes these remixes bad, it's all the console EQ that was added that makes them sound shrill and hollow. Lots of top and bottom end boosting going on. I know that sound well from my early days of learning how to mix (on this same SSL console I might add). I was trying to make everything as punchy and aggressive as I could and my mixes came out sounding just like these Genesis remixes. When you have that much EQ on EVERYTHING things are going to sound a bit off. 

Those SSL EQs have a very distinct sound to them, so do the compressors on the channel strips. Nick Davis just wanted these things to jump out at you and in the process he over-did everything. I think he was simply trying too hard to impress everyone with brute force and not sound quality. If you dig it, good for you. I can heard the EQs ringing and that really bothers me but the lack of good midrange and the shrill top end make my ears shut down. 
I don't understand how these remixes are getting such good reviews. Nick Davis used to do such amazing recordings. What happened? When did he become such a fan of over EQing everything? Can't everyone hear how overly EQ'd these mixes are? They simply aren't enjoyable to listen to. They're harsh and thin with a boomy low end and hollowed out midrange and clearly have inferior musical balances than the originals. I guess it's a case where people buy into believing remastered always means better even without volume matched comparisons. Remember, louder doesn't mean better. 

I can take about ten minutes of these discs before my ears just start ringing and I have to shut it off. They've lost a lot of the punch and power the original mixes had. The sound of the SSL console EQ Nick used has a distinct tone. They will ring when overused. You can hear it all over this set. It should be annoying even to those whose ears haven't been trained. There's a lot of poorly chosen EQ that adds a nasal quality to the instruments. The cymbals are harsh and Phil's vocals are nasally and sound like a they're coming through a megaphone. Things sound small and jammed together. 

I won't even go into detail about how much better Hugh Padgham's mixes are. Hugh is obviously a better engineer as he made Genesis sound powerful and important. Nick Davis has made them sound like a small transistor radio, albeit a very loud transistor radio. 

And what's with all the compression? These heavy mixes are ridiculously inappropriate for this beautiful, emotionally dynamic music. These songs used to have dynamics, loud and soft orchestrations that built the music. Now everything is LOUD! The LOUD! parts are LOUD! and the soft parts are LOUD! That's not detail you're hearing, it's just compression. 

It makes me sick to my stomach that these loud, overly EQd, overly compressed remixes are going to replace the dynamic, fuller and more artful original mixes. 

Welcome to the MP3 generation where sound quality just doesn't matter as long as it's loud. I guess I should get a cheap stereo that makes everything sound bad. That way these Genesis remixes won't upset me so much. 

Genesis... the George Lucas of the music world. ICK! 

Overly compressed and EQd remixes..., 16 May 2007 Who remixed these, Chris Lord Alge? Holy Crap! What's with all the compression? These heavy mixes are ridiculously inappropriate for this beautiful, emotionally dynamic music. These songs used to have dynamics, loud and soft orchestrations that built the music. Now everything is LOUD! The LOUD! parts are LOUD! and the soft parts are LOUD! That's not detail you're hearing, it's just compression. 

Also, there's a lot of poorly chosen EQ that adds a nasal quality to some of the instruments and makes cymbals sound harsh. Go get another CD version of And The There Were Three. Listen to Down and Out. There's a guitar that comes in around :28. Notice how nice it sounds. Now put in this new CD (adjust the volume down a bit) and listen how nasally, harsh and small that same guitar sounds. Also notice how shrill things like cymbals are in this new mix compared to the original. That same EQ is used on a lot of instruments including Phil's vocals. Things sound small and jammed together. 

Now, listen to the original ABACAB. Pretty good, eh? The put this new CD in and turn the volume down. Hear how narrow it is? Hear how it sounds smaller? Hear how it sounds harsh and shrill? 

As a Grammy award winning recordings engineer myself I can't say I'm looking forward to reading more rave reviews of these dreadful remixes. "

   surely some mistake...???   

but there is good news..

"SACD sound not compressed, 13 April 2007 

By 
J. Milner "jcmilner" (Hull, UK) - See all my reviews

Contrary to what a previous reviewer mentioned regarding compression, it must be said that this may well apply to the CD layer but on the SACD Stereo layer the sound is absolutely crystal clear and sharp with the drums literally banging you in the face. This is a great 'drum' album (Abacab) and the SACD format really does it justice. This version is by far the best that has ever been available and leaves behind the previous remaster. Having not listened to the CD layer I cannot comment on the compression issues but for anyone with SACD capabilities this (and the other Genesis SACD releases) come very highly recommended. "

maybe i'll buy one and report my findings on this thread - like he says the bad review may be for the CD layer and not the SACD.

Edited by mystic fred - September 04 2008 at 10:13