List manipulation?

Raff wrote: Negoba wrote: You mean if I keep rating my fanboy albums like Foxtrot and CTTE 5 stars I'm going to be demoted? Well, I should be demoted way before you are, because I have an absolutely staggering amount of 5-star reviews - many of which are positively fanboyish in tone!

ahhh.. but that is only half of it...  tell them about your DT reviews

yepper....  that is what makes site reviewers good judges for those lists...  many... in fact nearly all can look past their petty likes and dislikes.. and actually review the album.

of course.. unless M@X decides to step in because that suggestion has never gone anywhere and probably isn't going to happen..

the question is ...what  to do to avoid this problem... Gazpacho will be corrected... those who read this thread see there is another example. .one that won't be corrected.  I won't review it.. the only reason I would be to explicitedly manipulate the ratings.. because I listened to it.. and it is a good album.. but NOT anywhere near the top 50. 

if an album doesn't have a minimum of 5 collab reviews.. it doesn't belong in the top 100 albums.   Easy...  if 5 collabs here don't know of it.. or bother to review it... it doesn't belong in the top 100 on this site.

micky wrote: Epignosis wrote: micky wrote: I'm not...  but that's why I've suggested letting everyone has their voice.. their say.. their ratings and reviews.  but only using collab reviews to do the site's album lists. some of the benefits... encourage people to write reviews... write good ones... and get promoted to where their reviews count if influencing the rankings matters that much. eliminates manipulation.... manipulating collabs soon lose the ability to manipulate.. and also being a collab. I think that punishes the 95% of the non-collaborators who give a sh*t about what they do. punishing?   I think that is getting into the realm of melodramatic.   I'm not the one crying about the album lists... I learned to ignore them years ago. Some are though.. and  if people want rankings and lists that mean something... let the professional reviewers influence them.  If one isn't one... then try to become one.  Otherwise no one is punished.. anyone and everyone can review albums. If someone is upset about not being able to manipulate the charts.. then most likely they are reviewing for the wrong reasons anyway.

I specifically tried to avoid the word "punishes" precisely because I knew that's what you'd say.  But I'm 7-8 beers in, so oh well.

Rankings and reviews mean a lot to me, because it helps me compose and prioritize my wish list.  And I value the well-thought-out reviews of non-collabs (honestly, I can predict how some collabs will rate things based on talking to them for so long).  You like Italian caterwauling.  I know that now. 

But seriously, I like what we have here.  I think the algorithms in place are sound.  A few sh*tty ratings by haters won't stop one powerful review from a collaborator.

Raff wrote: The other day I went through my 5-star reviews, and decided to knock a star off three or four of those albums. I will also have to edit my reviews somewhat, but that won't be too much of a problem. Personally, I believe it is a good thing when we can look back at what we wrote in the past, and realise there is room for improvement.

I've done that myself.

Mirage by Camel was the first to lose it's fifth star.

Do I have to be a collaborator before I can edit my reviews or have a prog biography?

A few of my early ones need some, er, redrafting.

Epignosis wrote: ...A few sh*tty ratings by haters won't stop one powerful review from a collaborator.

And one crappy rating by a collab can have a profound effect on the overall rating where there are a number of powerful reviews by non-collabs.  Oh the potential power! At least if you abuse it, you're liable to lose it.

Negoba wrote: Do I have to be a collaborator before I can edit my reviews or have a prog biography? A few of my early ones need some, er, redrafting.

No, as a PR, you can edit your reviews to your heart's content!

Epignosis wrote: micky wrote: oh definitely... I adjust ratings .. up or down.. all the time as time goes on.. as the group does more work.. I get more familiar with an artist or what other collabs say might jog  something for me or enlighten me. I know I've  dropped DT .. raised Battiato.. dropped Ubi Maior.. will raise Decemberists' Crane Wife to 4 stars.   I am tempted to give The Crane Wife 5 stars.  The only thing holding me back is that about half of it isn't prog.  But then again, neither is Minstrel in the Gallery, and I rated that 5 easy.......hmmm...

In my very humble opinion, being prog or not should not be grounds from refraining from a 5-star rating. Many of my 5-star reviews are of prog-related albums. What I generally do is mention the 'prog quotient' of the album in the final paragraph, so that people won't mistake any of those albums for the second coming of Foxtrot or Close to the Edge .

^indeed, your SFaM review is a clear example of that

micky wrote: another reason why ratings are meaningless as far as the site....  they mean something different to each person..

Nay, Micky, that's what makes them valuable!

I ignore ratings without reviews.  But I read reviews before buying albums.  So far, I've only been screwed a half dozen times or so.