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Topic ClosedJimi Hendrix added to proto-prog

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manofmystery View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2009 at 21:24
so if we are putting in every artist people enjoy and don't always fit the norm can I nominate the Charlie Daniels Band be put somewhere, maybe a new zany subgenre can be added
 
don't get angry, i realize i've no say, just venting


Time always wins.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2009 at 21:57
Originally posted by manofmystery manofmystery wrote:

so if we are putting in every artist people enjoy and don't always fit the norm can I nominate the Charlie Daniels Band be put somewhere, maybe a new zany subgenre can be added
 
don't get angry, i realize i've no say, just venting
 
That would be prog-C&W sub, I do believe.
Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2009 at 21:57
I think Hendrix's music is overrated but his prog-connection underrated....
 
Anyway, he's here. Good.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2009 at 22:08
Prog Ears beat us to it by a good margin; but he is here. How prog or not he is can probably be discussed until the sun goes supernova, but his influence on psychedelic music as well as progressive music is undeniable - indeed few have influenced rock music in general to the extent he did.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2009 at 22:28
Why are we debating how prog he is when he's in a sub dedicated not to prog - but to the music that influenced the artists and put them on the path to where they'd wind up.


Saying Hendrix is not prog is like saying that BetaMax is not Blu Ray. Well no sh*t, but it was essential in getting from point A to point B


Edited by King By-Tor - April 10 2009 at 22:28
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2009 at 01:33
Are people getting somewhat desensitized or are we in the midst of Hendrix fans, this addition seems to be far less controversial than - in my opinion! - more legitimate past additions like Beatles or Metallica (which of course was added in PR, not PP).  Not that I am protesting this at all, Hendrix certainly deserves to be in the Proto-Prog category, in my opinion again.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2009 at 01:41
Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

Why are we debating how prog he is when he's in a sub dedicated not to prog - but to the music that influenced the artists and put them on the path to where they'd wind up.


Saying Hendrix is not prog is like saying that BetaMax is not Blu Ray. Well no sh*t, but it was essential in getting from point A to point B
 
Say gents, a few of us highly influencial artists were wondering when us and all our buddies will get in.
You can call us Pre-Proto, we won't mind.


Edited by manofmystery - April 11 2009 at 01:48


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2009 at 03:23
Originally posted by Petrovsk Mizinski Petrovsk Mizinski wrote:


Okay, fair enough, you don't agree with his addition, to some extent I can sympathize but like you I understand it's not my call or yours either as you said.
But when you say "We need significant connection with Progressive Rock", to what extent is "significant"?
Is "significant" concrete in this context or subject to opinion?
I don't believe either Iron Maiden or Jimi Hendrix have "Significant" connections to Progressive rock and a lot of other people seem to think so too.
This tells me, in order to be placed in the prog related or proto prog genres, an artist does not need a significant connection to prog rock, but a connection to a certain extent which is not necessarily "significant" to be eligble for addition. That seems fair, no?


I'm sorry to say, but there's an apparent flaw in your logic. You don't see the significant connection, so you deduce that there is none ... while some other valued and respected collabs (including M@x) obviously see this connection.

I've seen this so many times before. In the end these prog-related additions are always done with the support of only *some* collabs, and the others will have to bite their lips and live with them ... the upside being that some day an artist that they approve of might be added as prog-related, and others (who might be in support of Hendrix now) will have to bite their lips.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2009 at 03:57
Whether Hendrix is considered prog related or not, I think he's just plain vanilla overrated. Precedents have been set on PA which makes his exclusion untenable. It's a subtle change to the interpretation of:

Apres nous la deluge

Glad he's here. Some of 'Electric Ladyland' is sublime and other parts, sloppy and wretched.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2009 at 04:08
Clap I think the PA would be quite poorer site without Hendrix. He definitely belongs to the "proto-prog".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2009 at 04:28
Like it or not - and I have little liking for Jimi Hendrix' music -, but I can't deny that Jimi Hendrix is prog-related.

Edited by someone_else - April 11 2009 at 04:28
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2009 at 05:22
Great addition. For me Hendrix is one of the fathers of Prog.
 
Fron yesterday to today...
 
I've added 15 videos
 
I've added 3 albums
 
I've produced 2 reviews
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2009 at 05:33
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Petrovsk Mizinski Petrovsk Mizinski wrote:


Okay, fair enough, you don't agree with his addition, to some extent I can sympathize but like you I understand it's not my call or yours either as you said.
But when you say "We need significant connection with Progressive Rock", to what extent is "significant"?
Is "significant" concrete in this context or subject to opinion?
I don't believe either Iron Maiden or Jimi Hendrix have "Significant" connections to Progressive rock and a lot of other people seem to think so too.
This tells me, in order to be placed in the prog related or proto prog genres, an artist does not need a significant connection to prog rock, but a connection to a certain extent which is not necessarily "significant" to be eligble for addition. That seems fair, no?


I'm sorry to say, but there's an apparent flaw in your logic. You don't see the significant connection, so you deduce that there is none ... while some other valued and respected collabs (including M@x) obviously see this connection.

I've seen this so many times before. In the end these prog-related additions are always done with the support of only *some* collabs, and the others will have to bite their lips and live with them ... the upside being that some day an artist that they approve of might be added as prog-related, and others (who might be in support of Hendrix now) will have to bite their lips.



Heh, never claimed to be a logician either, and it doesn't help I was posting this stuff in the stupid early hours of the morning when I was meant to be asleepLOL
You got a good point, yeah.
I can see the connection, it was Ivan that said he didn'tWink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2009 at 06:10
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

I think Hendrix's music is overrated but his prog-connection underrated....
 

Anyway, he's here. Good.


My feelings exactly, and I have been saying that on this forum since I arrived. The smoke and mirrors surrounding his over-rated hype as a guitar hero (his guitar playing was surpassed long ago) makes it hard for people to remember that he was working side by side and moving in stride with The Nice, Pink Floyd and The Soft Machine while the seeds of prog were being planted.

There has been a 'guided by the masses' revisionist re-make of Jimi's career in which he has become a mundane guitar hero easily replaced by Van Halen or anyone and his real talent as a musical visionary has been dumbed down so he can remain the American cowboy guitar slinger.

Edited by Easy Money - April 11 2009 at 08:10
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2009 at 07:50
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:


There has been a 'guided by the masses' revisionist re-make of Jimi's career in which he has become a mundane guitar hero easily replaced by Van Halen or anyone and his real talent as a musical visionary has been dumbed down so he can be remain the American cowboy guitar slinger.


Oh, the blame for that one is largely due to all the guitarists you could find as well as a few you couldn't find that hailed him as a guitarist virtuoso and highly influential musician for them.

One might say that his qualities as a creator of music drowned in the feedback from thousands and thousands of fuzzboxes and the echoes of millions upon millions of guitar-soloing ;-)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2009 at 08:15
Jimi's solo style was so copied that now even Hendrix sounds like a parody of himself, that's what over-exposure will do to you.

I like his natural speech-like flow on the guitar, but he is far from my favorite soloist.

If want to hear someone really expand on what Hendrix brought to the table check out Pete Cosey, the psychedelic guitarist who plays the best solos I have ever heard on Miles albums like Agharta, Dark Magus and others.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2009 at 09:51
LOLI must say that I found Easy Money's introduction of Hendrix to proto-prog close to hillarious. It is clearly written by someone who himself is not "a believer". Well, don't shoot him, he's only the messenger...But Easy Money seems to be trying to find all kinds of excuses for Hendrix' inclusion, one less valid than the other.
 
Yes, Hendrix was a part of the culture that led to prog, socializing with other proto-prog bands and artists. (I think you forgot to mention Touch.) Irrespective of his musical directions (proto-prog or not) he brought music to the masses just like the Beatles, so the (few?) proto-prog songs he delivered must have helped paving the path for prog.
 
The way his guitar was playing around every note is one of the trademarks of prog, and many keyboard and bass players seemed to follow this trend in those years. Replace his guitar parts with Emerson's keyboards or Squire's bass and it's pretty proto-prog. It would be a stretch to say no Emerson or Squire without Hendrix, but perhaps worth a thought.
 
Then there's the music. To point out a few songs: Listening to Are You Experienced? (the album) after all these years reveals that the title track and especially I Don't Live Today and the space rock on Third Stone From the Sun is as proto-prog as anything else from '67.
 
Ok, I'm convinced! Thanx M@x Clap
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2009 at 10:10
^ Thanks, I used to teach comedy traffic school in California.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2009 at 11:48
Originally posted by Petrovsk Mizinski Petrovsk Mizinski wrote:


I can see the connection, it was Ivan that said he didn'tWink
 
I said I diodn't wanted to talk more about this addition (and even made a review of Electric Ladyland), if I'm mentioned, I have to reply
 
Yes I did, I said it, this is a place for OPINIONS,  and even when in my review of Electric ladyland I say I understand why he is here and that he has some relation with Prog, even when i insist the connection is not significant and he should be in Prog Related.
 
And Mike, some other Collaborators don't believe that connection is significative, even some supporters say "Hey doesn't matter if he's not Prog, he's in a non Prog sub-genre" but we all accepted he's here  without having to bite our lips,
 
Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2009 at 11:57
^Heh, you have no obligation to reply, even if you are mentionedSmile
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