No Smoking in Bars/Clubs?

If the UK is going to become the 51st State then I want us to adopt all America's loony laws ... I want guns. Lots of them. Like a great big semi-automatic one with a kick like a mule that can take out a Toyota Landcruiser at 500 paces. With laser sights. 

We've had it here in Wales for a couple of years. It hasn't reduced smoking levels that much, but it most certainly has reduced trade in local pubs, many of whom were struggling to stay in business without this bit of "help" from the nanny state.

I have no problems with smoking as long as there is good ventilation, if there isn't you're basically sucking the oxygen out of the room that others need.  Smokers can go outside otherwise.  Don't you need some good air in your lungs with that smoke?  I'm having a little deja vu about this thread being done before.


Edited by Slartibartfast - April 08 2009 at 20:59

micky wrote: I remember a place like that in Colorado up in the Rockies near Colorado Springs...it was my first experience with sawdust floors ...  I just fell in love with the place

micky wrote: stonebeard wrote: micky wrote: you rights end where another's rights begin. So does the owner of the bar really not get a say in this? This is a no-win argument if you proclaim to be on the side of individual rights. individual rights?...christ almighty.... show where I have the RIGHT to smoke cigarettes in a public place and possibly affect the health of others.  What about their rights to go into a place of THEIR choosing and not have to be exposed to something that DOES affect your health.

Well, I think they'd want to respect the "market tradition" of the USA and participate in the natural selection of bars. Have some bars be smoking and some nonsmoking. If people really care enough, the smoking bars should be driven out of business. At that point, I think the smoking bar owners would get the hint it's not good for business to remain smoking and would change voluntarily. Again, if people care enough, the market will decide. *chuckle* At least this is what any red-blooded American patriot would do, if they believed at all in liberty and a free market. But I guess they don't.

Just because the bar is in downtown and "in public" does not mean it isn't still privately run. And since bar owners can be selective in who they let in, there is no right for the public to be in every bar. Therefore, it's plainly obvious to me that the right of the owner to run his bar supersedes the right of clients to demand certain policies from that owner.

The point of the situation: Don't like it, start a new bar and compete. Or, cry about it to the government and have them force laws like this on private establishments.

i don't smoke, so for me it's fine a no smoking law in bars and clubs

In my state there are full bans in effect, except for the tribal casinos where the state has no jurisdiction.  I myself no longer go to bars that often, nor smoke for that matter, so it does not affect me one way or the other.  But those casinos are sure doing a bang up business with the smokers around here, which I assume is causing some financial pain for the bar owners.  The tribes have it figured out:  you buy a few beers, drop a few twenties in the slots, and smoke all you like.  Ka-ching!

Here's my hierarchy of rights for this situation:

1) The bar owner's right to run the bar as he likes, provided it doesn't hurt other businesses or violate laws regarding clean water, electricity setup, etc.

2) The rights of the patrons of the bar, who choose voluntarily to enter it.

Skipping past 1 to protect 2 is unreasonable and illogical.

Of course, I try to operate my mind on a strict diet of common sense, so I might have trouble morphing my observations to the sad reality of our nanny state.

mrcozdude wrote: micky wrote: mrcozdude wrote: I always thought the options of a non smoking sections and smoking section was prefect that is absolutely no reason why that couldn't work.Bars I used to go to smell absolutely foul of beer farts and urinals. the best still have blood stains on the floor as well.... pool tables with customers like the Harley dude who slaps you on the back after a great bank shot saying....'great shot.... I just got out of the pen' (true story.. on a first date hahha) now those are bars... and really.. just who is going to tell him that you aren't going to smoke.  Surely not the bartender wearing the eye-patch with cigarette dangling from her lips... sounds like my kind of place. In all seriousness though whatever your view,it does make wonder what other rules & restrictions the government will enforce.I have a feeling cigarettes will be the last thing to complain about soon.

if ever in Stillwater Oklahoma... check out The Blue Room... classic 'bar' where you have to watch your back or get a knife in it. Great place for a first date....Micky style Not sure why... but always loved those kind of places.

as far as laws and restrictions...  I think public safety is a primary function OF government.  Of course there is taking it too far.. but keeping on topic here.  Restricting smoking in public places... no.. that isn't taking too far..and I believe only the most militant smoker would be against it.  If at a bar... you step outside.. no problem. As Raff says.. and I couldn't agree more....  you rights end where another's rights begin.  People I think tend to forget that... look that people that bitch about free speech here in internet forums.

micky wrote: mrcozdude wrote: I always thought the options of a non smoking sections and smoking section was prefect that is absolutely no reason why that couldn't work.Bars I used to go to smell absolutely foul of beer farts and urinals. the best still have blood stains on the floor as well.... pool tables with customers like the Harley dude who slaps you on the back after a great bank shot saying....'great shot.... I just got out of the pen' (true story.. on a first date hahha) now those are bars... and really.. just who is going to tell him that you aren't going to smoke.  Surely not the bartender wearing the eye-patch with cigarette dangling from her lips...

sounds like my kind of place.

In all seriousness though whatever your view,it does make wonder what other rules & restrictions the government will enforce.I have a feeling cigarettes will be the last thing to complain about soon.