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zappaholic 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Location: flyover country
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Points: 2822
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 Posted: April 08 2009 at 19:28 |
The following is from one of comedian Auggie Smith's appearances on the Bob & Tom radio show.
AUGGIE: What I'm talking about is freedom, people! Montana represents - you go to California, swear to god, it's against the law to smoke cigarettes in bars and taverns. And yeah I know, smoking's bad for you, but - who's concerned about their health in a BAR? Like what's the complaint on this one? "Excuse me! Mr. Bartender Man! I am trying to get drunk, so I can drive home, and have unprotected sex with some chick I just met tonight, and THIS guy's blowing SMOKE in my face!" You try that in Montana, they'll shoot you with their sixguns! I believe that we should abolish all bar laws in America. I believe that in America, the land of the free, there should be no laws in bars. And if you don't like living under no laws, then don't go to the bar. For example: I don't like Bed Bath & Beyond. I don't like what goes on at Bed Bath & Beyond. So you know what I do about it? That's right! I DON'T GO THERE. You know what I don't do about it, I don't picket Bed Bath & Beyond. I don't put Bed Bath & Beyond in an "Axis Of Evil" with Kitchen Caboodle and the Baby Gap. I don't think Bed Bath & Beyond should have to be 500 yards from the elementary school - I just don't go to Bed Bath & Beyond!
TOM: I like Bed Bath & Beyond, Auggie! I'm a divorced guy, I need them.
AUGGIE: And I'm ok with you going there. And I'm even ok with you smoking there. You know why? Cos I don't go there, it doesn't affect me!
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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Trademark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 17:25 |
Where I live the bar owners put up a horrible fuss when the statewide smoking ban went into effect. They were crying about how they'd all go out of business within a week of the ban and that smokers would never go to a bar again.
Well what actually happened (and has happened in in most states where these bans are in effect) is that MORE people now go to the bars than before. Business at the bars is up not down. The smokers still go out, they just have to run outside for a smoke every 4-1/2 minutes. But now the rest of us can, and often do, go as well. Revenues are up BECAUSE of the smoking ban. Before the ban I rarely ever went to bars. Now I can and do go out if there's a good band playing.
Now if we can just get rid of the drunks.....
Edited by Trademark - April 08 2009 at 17:28
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Gorgo Ourgon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 04 2009
Location: Kobaļa
Status: Offline
Points: 161
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 16:57 |
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I'm all for smoking being banned in public establishments. As a life-long asthma sufferer, I can honestly say that there are few things more frustrating than having to struggle to breath over cigarette smoke. If I had a nickle for every time I had to leave a public establishment because of the smoke level...
Edited by Gorgo Ourgon - April 08 2009 at 16:59
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aapatsos
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 11 2005
Location: Manchester, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 9226
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 16:52 |
I will try to make a comparison (maybe an odd one): In the UK, it is a criminal offence not to pay a ticket on the bus or train. Should smoking in closed spaces be a criminal offence? for me YES, as you make people to breath your cigarette smoke which has been proven to CAUSE HEALTH PROBLEMS. I don't imply you breath it once, but what if you go to a restaurant or pub very often? Is causing health problems a criminal offence? I will let you decide. Yes, I am stubborn and I will never change my opinion on that 
Edited by aapatsos - April 08 2009 at 16:55
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46833
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 16:48 |
 mr.cub wrote:
They should look out for flare guns in such environments, that seems to be the cause of more famous fires |
sure they are illegal...with pyrotechnics (what were they thinking in that club  ) but if people ignore them.. what is to stop disasters from happening. People's stupidity is not an excuse though for not looking out for public safety. Smoking is a personal choice.. not a right.. and when it conflicts with public safety.. it should lose every single damn time.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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mr.cub
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 06 2009
Location: Lexington, VA
Status: Offline
Points: 971
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 16:06 |
They should look out for flare guns in such environments, that seems to be the cause of more famous fires
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46833
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 16:00 |
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ahem.... how many fires caused by a cigarette is too many... that in itself is reason enough to ban them. I'm a power smoker and love my cigarettes.. but I don't have the right.. nor demand it... in where I go. If I can.. I might ... and if I can't.. .I don't raise a fuss about it. Never have...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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rushfan4
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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
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Points: 66264
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:57 |
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I actually know of a bar/restaurant that was burnt down by someone throwing a lit cigarette into the trash. Or at least that is what the cause of the fire was determined to be. Fortunately the fire didn't occur until after hours but....
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TheCaptain
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2009
Location: Ohio, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1335
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:55 |
Raff wrote:
Has any of you, before launching into a rant against the 'nanny government', thought about the possible connection between the ban on smoking and the danger of fire in those places? In many countries clubs are situated underground, and fires have been known to break out and kill many people. I think that a destructive fire, with loss of lives, would cost a bar or club owner much more than having smoking banned on the premises... But then, what do I know?
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No disrespect of course but I'm not entirely sure a smoking ban decreases the chance of a fire in a bar. I admit I have never been in a bar nor do I smoke and cannot attest to this from first-hand experience. I imagine that flaming shots are more responsible for bar fires than someone lighting up. Smokers know how light cigarettes. Unless they are completely trashed, but I believe it's the responsibility of the bartenders to cut off a person before they get to that point. I'd like someone to elaborate on a likely scenario that starts with someone hankering for a cigarette and ends in a bar fire. To answer the actual question, I agree with Alex and stonebeard.
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Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal.
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mr.cub
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 06 2009
Location: Lexington, VA
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Points: 971
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:48 |
Raff wrote:
Has any of you, before launching into a rant against the 'nanny government', thought about the possible connection between the ban on smoking and the danger of fire in those places? In many countries clubs are situated underground, and fires have been known to break out and kill many people. I think that a destructive fire, with loss of lives, would cost a bar or club owner much more than having smoking banned on the premises... But then, what do I know? |
That is the obvious reason for the smoking ban. On one end I think it is necessary for places like TGI Fridays or Ruby Tuesday, but I have to agree that it should rest in the hands of the club owners. Most of them would proablby look at current trends and realize that this may be a more beneficial business decision. Frankly if you want to smoke, just go outside for 10 minutes and come back in- it really isn't that big of a problem. You don't need to like such laws, but they are in place for good reasons. Its not as if a club owner is going to lose business because smoking is prohibited there. I'm all for the idea of no smoking in bars and clubs but feel club owners are the ones who should decide
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
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Points: 66264
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:46 |
MovingPictures07 wrote:
I think it's ridiculous. I would never be a smoker, but there is nothing good out of this, especially for businesses.
If you don't like clubs or bars that feature smoking heavily, then don't go there. It should be up to businesses whether they want to feature non-smoking sections or an entirely non-smoking business.
If enough people REALLY want a non-smoking bar, an entrepreneur or business owner will jump on the opportunity to make money off of it, and thus will voluntarily choose it. No need for the government to elevate this to a criminal offense.
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Show me a bar or club with nonsmoking, and I'll show you a church. No offense, but if I want to go see my favorite prog band play live I am going to have to do so by going to a bar or club. Yeah I may be an idiot for choosing to do so because I am exposing my lungs to secondhand smoke but my ears really want to be exposed to the live music of said prog bands.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:37 |
Raff wrote:
Has any of you, before launching into a rant against the 'nanny government', thought about the possible connection between the ban on smoking and the danger of fire in those places? In many countries clubs are situated underground, and fires have been known to break out and kill many people. I think that a destructive fire, with loss of lives, would cost a bar or club owner much more than having smoking banned on the premises... But then, what do I know?
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If that were the case, then it seems more reasonable to solve the issue with ordinances and inspections of individual bars, not statewide bans that would effect bars that have no problem. I also wonder if said fire hazard bars ban flaming shots and whatnot.
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:36 |
rushfan4 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
I think it's ridiculous. I would never be a smoker, but there is nothing good out of this, especially for businesses.
If you don't like clubs or bars that feature smoking heavily, then don't go there. It should be up to businesses whether they want to feature non-smoking sections or an entirely non-smoking business.
If enough people REALLY want a non-smoking bar, an entrepreneur or business owner will jump on the opportunity to make money off of it, and thus will voluntarily choose it. No need for the government to elevate this to a criminal offense.
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As spoken by someone under the age of 21 who can't get in to bars (legally) at this point anyways.  |
It has no baring on my beliefs. 
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:35 |
Raff wrote:
Has any of you, before launching into a rant against the 'nanny government', thought about the possible connection between the ban on smoking and the danger of fire in those places? In many countries clubs are situated underground, and fires have been known to break out and kill many people. I think that a destructive fire, with loss of lives, would cost a bar or club owner much more than having smoking banned on the premises... But then, what do I know?
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More fires are caused by electricity than by smoking. Should we ban that too because it puts people in danger of massive fires?
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
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Points: 66264
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:34 |
MovingPictures07 wrote:
I think it's ridiculous. I would never be a smoker, but there is nothing good out of this, especially for businesses.
If you don't like clubs or bars that feature smoking heavily, then don't go there. It should be up to businesses whether they want to feature non-smoking sections or an entirely non-smoking business.
If enough people REALLY want a non-smoking bar, an entrepreneur or business owner will jump on the opportunity to make money off of it, and thus will voluntarily choose it. No need for the government to elevate this to a criminal offense.
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As spoken by someone under the age of 21 who can't get in to bars (legally) at this point anyways.
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Raff
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
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Points: 24429
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:25 |
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Has any of you, before launching into a rant against the 'nanny government', thought about the possible connection between the ban on smoking and the danger of fire in those places? In many countries clubs are situated underground, and fires have been known to break out and kill many people. I think that a destructive fire, with loss of lives, would cost a bar or club owner much more than having smoking banned on the premises... But then, what do I know?
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:21 |
stonebeard wrote:
100% no.
It should be the decision of the bar owners. They'll take a hit in customers no matter what way they choose (either smokers leaving or non-smokers leaving), and the burden should be on them to make the decision for the atmosphere of the bar, not the health of hypothetical people.
In all honesty the crimes against free choice committed in the name of health is the unsung disaster, and it speaks volumes of the hypocrisy of Americans who are supposed to stand for freedom of choice, but when it comes down to an act most people dislike, they flake on their flimsy moral background.
Democrats, at least, have the platform of being nannies, so it's not unexpected from them. Yet it's often the prudish, supposedly moral Republican who come out against smoking, and thus just making another notch in the hypocrisy bedpost by abandoning the Randian ideals they like to verbally masturbate over when the political climate suits their devious plans (ie. now).
Full disclosure: I smoke a pipe, hookah, and sometimes self- rolled cigarettes.
An even bigger crime than the bar issue is the recent tax increase on tobacco, which is disgustingly high. And yet, most people don't care that it's the government's sick way of imposing behavior on its people.
It all infuriates me, more as a champion of decency and freedom than an occasional smoker.
Rant over...until someone responds. 
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I don't smoke or use drugs and I never plan on smoking or using drugs, but this is very well-said and I'm glad to see another person who agrees with me on this. 
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:20 |
mrcozdude wrote:
I always thought the options of a non smoking sections and smoking section was prefect that is absolutely no reason why that couldn't work.Bars I used to go to smell absolutely foul of beer farts and urinals.
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the best still have blood stains on the floor as well.... pool tables with customers like the Harley dude who slaps you on the back after a great bank shot saying....'great shot.... I just got out of the pen' (true story.. on a first date hahha) now those are bars... and really.. just who is going to tell him that you aren't going to smoke. Surely not the bartender wearing the eye-patch with cigarette dangling from her lips...
Edited by micky - April 08 2009 at 15:21
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:14 |
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I was going to rant as well, but Alex and Stoney pretty much said what I was going to say.
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mrcozdude
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2007
Location: Devon,UK.
Status: Offline
Points: 2078
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 15:11 |
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I always thought the options of a non smoking sections and smoking section was prefect that is absolutely no reason why that couldn't work.Bars I used to go to smell absolutely foul of beer farts and urinals.
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No Smoking in Bars/Clubs?
