Greg Massi (Baliset, motW, Kayo Dot) - March 2009

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Greg Massi (Baliset, maudlin of the Well, Kayo Dot)

Greg Massi has been known in progressive/avant-garde circles for his work as a guitarist in maudlin of the Well and Kayo Dot for many years, but in recent days his musical pursuits have focused on his solo project, Baliset. Baliset brings forth a diverse musical palette distinct from his previous projects, boasting such influences as Iron Maiden, Dream Theater, Genesis, and video game music, while still retaining some of the atmospheric influence of Kayo Dot and maudlin of the Well. The result is a truly unique sonic experience in the realm of progressive metal.

Greg discussed with me his experiences with his previous bands as well as the new maudlin of the Well record, which is scheduled to be released for free online sometime in the next two weeks. He also discusses the music on his new album, A Time for Rust, and creates an interesting narrative detailing the ten-year on-and-off process that went into the songwriting and production for this album.

Interview:

In Prog circles, you are most known for your work as a guitarist in
maudlin of the Well and Kayo Dot. Were you in any bands prior to this?
Tell us about your musical background, beyond the stuff we know about
already!

I first picked up the guitar back in 1992 and started with a local
teacher in Southington, CT. While in high school I became friends with
Toby and Byron. Toby and I briefly had a band in
high school with a couple of friends of ours called Celestial
Providence, but we maybe had a handful of jam sessions but nothing
really came of it. At the same time, Toby, Byron, and I were each
recording solo projects in our spare time (Spoonion, Buttkey, and
Baliset respectively) and making tapes to play for each other, and it
just got to the point where Toby recorded a song and decided to have
Byron write the words. Then he asked me to contribute a solo, and there
you have the genesis of the maudlin of the Well.

Around
that same time I went off to school to study music at a very
conservatory-minded music program where I continued to study privately
as well as unsuccessfully exploring classical and jazz guitar. However,
during this period is when I really started to develop my love of
harmony, not just limited to the harmony guitar parts of my favorite
bands, but also the idea of chord theory and learning different jazz
voicings. This really helped inspire me to use different colors within the
music I was writing, which was pretty bland at that point. 

Then after graduation I moved to to Boston with the rest of the motW guys and I believe you know the rest.

As I understand it, whereas Kayo Dot could almost be regarded as
a Toby Driver solo project creatively, maudlin of the Well featured a
more democratic creative process, with most of the lyrics being written
by Jason Byron and the songwriting process being a bit more shared.
Could you elaborate on your contributions to the band beyond your role
as a guitarist?

Each project had the same creative process from my perspective.
Toby would come in with a mostly completed song idea. He would have the
basic skeleton and structure of the song ready and a good number of the
parts written, and then we would listen to it as a group and decide
what parts we felt needed to be added. Then we would map out the songs
and assign parts to certain people. For example, in "Birth Pains of
Astral Projection," there was this idea that we should do some sort of
keyboard/guitar solo thing in the middle before Byron's first vocals,
and so Terran wrote a pipe organ part. After he played it for me, I
wrote the guitar solo around it, and that was the way we tended to work.

In Kayo Dot the core process was the same. Toby had the songs
written, we sat around and mapped out our ideas, and Byron wrote the
lyrics for the first two albums.

With the Dowsing lineup, it was
a bit more collaborative as we had a full band who could rehearse the
songs ahead of time all together, and when we got to the studio, we
were able to record a lot of the basic tracks (guitar, bass, drums)
live. Since I pretty much had exclusively contributed only solos or
other such guitar textures on the previous albums, I felt very
accomplished about that album. It was like Kirk Hammett finally getting
play rhythm guitar on a Metallica CD when "Load" came out.

With Kayo Dot, you ultimately made the decision to leave after
the release of 2006's Dowsing Anemone with Copper Tongue. Could you
tell us a bit about your experience with the band and your decision to
part ways?

Kayo Dot represented a huge shift in our lives and how we
approached our music careers and also provided us with so many
opportunities in terms of musicians and friends we met along the way,
and it helped us connect to a larger network of people around the
country and the world. With motW we were an "outsider" metal band, and
as such there were roadblocks at every turn because we felt very
pigeonholed being on a goth/metal label, and with such a narrow
audience to market to, it felt difficult. However, with Kayo Dot we
really were able to deconstruct ourselves and distance ourselves from
our past, and this led to us having the freedom to play more shows with
much more diverse bands. It gave us more avenues to pursue in terms of
building an audience and marketing, and as a result we were able to
move forward musically and professionally.

This helped us achieve the thing I had always dreamed about:
touring. It gave me a whole new set of experiences to draw on, along
with the chance to meet all kinds of people, and it allowed me to see
the US in a way that many people don't normally get to see.

As for leaving the band, that was a hard decision to come to. To be
honest, I had been thinking about leaving since before Dowsing was
recorded. Ultimately, it was the 2006 tour that cemented my decision to
leave. Although I felt good about the Dowsing album as a performer, I
felt very creatively stifled because when it came time to write parts. I
didn't feel super psyched on a lot of the parts I had come up with, and
I think the band felt the same. I started to get the feeling that maybe
my style and voice weren't adding to the group anymore. Then while we
were on tour, I felt that
disconnect again -- that loss of excitement about what I was playing. I
just wasn't fitting in enough -- to the point where I decided if I am
not adding anything to Kayo Dot, then I probably should leave and not
hinder them.

It's not really my place to discuss what happened with the other
guys and why they chose to leave, but I had made the
commitment to finish out the tour and I wanted to honor that. So right
before we did the Full Force festival in New York in December 2006, I
told Toby that it was time for me to leave, and after the gig I was
musically out on my own for the first time in ten years.

I guess you could say it was "creative
differences," which I always thought was a joke excuse to cover up for
bands getting in fist fights or something. But the music wasn't drawing
me in anymore, and when you are in a project that is so focused on the
direction of the main composer, you really need to respect that
composer's need to push forward, and if it isn't your thing, it's best
to get out of the way and let them do what they need to do and I didn't
want to negatively affect what I believed was important music being
made. It was then
that I felt the time had come to opt out and let them flourish without
the danger of me holding them back at all.

In Kayo Dot's case, I think it was for the best. I think for creativity's sake it really gave Toby
the opportunity to take a lot more control over his own music. The end
result is Blue Lambency Downward, which I really loved. After hearing
it, I definitely felt that based on where I was creatively, I doubt I
could have added anything to that record, and as such it reinforced my
decision and gave me a bit of closure on the whole KD experience.

Did you ever indulge in astral projection/lucid dreaming as a songwriting aid, or was that just Toby?

Actually,
no I haven't. I think that was definitely more of Toby's thing. I have
had lucid dreams before and I feel like I used my experiences to inform
some of my songwriting, but I didn't purposefully engage in that type
of stuff as a means to an end for songs.

Let's talk about the new maudlin of the Well record. It's a
miracle this thing was able to be completely fan-funded. Do you guys
ever plan to release this material as a CD?

It was
definitely a shock and pleasant surprise that people believed enough in
what motW stood for to support this idea. As far as I know there are no
plans to release it as a CD. It was fan-funded and as such we are
letting them have it for free, and printing up CDs would just throw
unnecessary financial issues into the mix. 

However, I am not sure what plans are being made for artwork, so I
think it would be cool if fans made their own album covers for it for
when they burn the tracks onto a CD. I think it would really be cool to
involve the fans in that aspect even more. Plus, when I am listening to
it on my iPod, I would really like it to have some artwork as well so
they should make covers and send the artwork to me. =)

I haven't heard anything from the new album yet, but as I
understand it, it's primarily comprised of re-arrangements of released
material and older, unreleased material. Did the band produce any new
material for this record?

Its a little bit of everything I guess. There are some old ideas
and there are some new ideas too. I think in re-visiting some of his
old ideas, Toby just got in the mindset of writing that way and as a
result was able to create some new music that had the old motW vibe. I
am really excited for you all to hear it. I think it is some of Toby's
best songwriting yet.

How was reuniting with your old band mates? Did it require much rehearsal, or did you guys remember most of the old material?

Well
it required no rehearsal for me since all I did was come in for two
days to lay down some solos. But true to the Bath/Leaving Your Body Map
sessions, I came in with probably 50% of my solos written out and 50%
more loose so I could improv and see what came out. The days I was
there it was with Toby, Josh and Sam, and those guys are always fun for
me to hang around with. It felt like a relaxed atmosphere for the most
part since we weren't as "on the clock" as we had been during the
Bath/LYBM sessions. Much joking and laughing ensued. Unfortunately
Terran was away on another gig, so I didn't get to hang out with him.
Despite everything we went through in the ten years I was involved with
the two bands or even the 17 years I have known Toby, those guys are
still like family to me and the years just melted away hanging out and
making music with them. 

I was a little bummed that Nick Kyte and Byron weren't able to be
involved in recording the album because I miss those guys terribly and
would have loved to hang out with them too.

Mia Matsumiya
(Kayo Dot's violinist) contributed to the recording of this album. Can
we expect to hear more interlude-type songs, or is violin being
incorporated into heavier material as well?

Well again its a mixture of both. I felt that some of the violin
parts will remind people of the interludes, but the strings are also
brought into the main context of some of the songs. I think they sound
awesome! People shouldn't expect heaviness on the scale of "They Aren't
All Beautiful" or "A Conception Pathetic," but it will be a cool mix
of all the different aspects with kind of a modern twist...if that
makes any sense whatsoever!

Are we ever going to find out about the crazy connection that
apparently exists between the two final maudlin of the Well albums?

If I can ever get Byron's permission I'll publish his e-mail address and you can ask him yourself. That was really his baby.

You released your debut album, A Time for Rust, on March 17,
2009. Admittedly, I was expecting my face to immediately be melted by
the heaviness, but the songwriting present here is varied and diverse.
What influences did you have going into the record?

Most people thought it was going to be a power metal record or some
variation thereof, and I don't think that expectation was undeserved. I
admittedly was in a metal bubble in terms of my listening material for
many years, and I really love all the power and majesty stuff as much
as the technical or more compositionally interesting stuff going on. It
is a deep emotional connection I have to the music that hasn't really
faded over the years, and when I started planting the seeds of this
album back in 2000-2001, I think there was definitely an expectation of
myself to make a more metal record since that was what was on my brain
creatively. After hearing albums like "The Chemical Wedding" by Bruce
Dickinson or "Dreaming Neon Black" by Nevermore, I really had it in my
head that I wanted to make something heavy and powerful but with an air
of sophistication to it. As the years went along, the metal ideas kept
getting phased out in favor of what I felt were the stronger song
ideas, which were getting less and less heavy.

Part of it was that the basic songs were worked on in my bedroom
with an acoustic guitar or an unamplified electric guitar, and I think
that really makes a difference because it takes away all the effects
and the "clever bits" as Freddie Mercury called them, and it confronts
you with the basic idea of "is this a good song or just a pile of riffs
thrown together?"

In terms of influence, this album shows my roots a lot. Iron Maiden
is my favorite band ever so there is their influence all over the
record. The 3 guitar solos in "These Moments Are..." are actually
constructed to be me conjuring Adrian Smith in the first solo, Dave
Murray in the second solo, and a combination of the two (which amounts
to my personal style anyway) in the third. I always loved the harmony
part in "Flash of the Blade" where they have like 4 parts going at once
in different directions, and since I always wanted to try that out,
that came out in the form of the harmonies at the beginning and end of
"A Time For Rust." Also, I wrote "Dreamflesh" around the idea of
combining two ideas I always loved: having a song that has heavy verses
and quiet choruses a la Metallica's "The Unforgiven" and having each
verse be a different musical idea a la Dream Theater's "Pull Me Under."

Aside from musical influences, I am a nerd and a HUGE Joss Whedon
and Neil Gaiman fan boy, and so the influence of different stories and
episodes made their way into the lyrics of the album. Specifically,
"Sandman: The Dream Hunters," the episode "Objects In Space" from
Firefly and the episode "Lonely Hearts" from the first season of Angel.

My friend Amanda is a painter in NYC and the influence of her
painting "Machinery Listens To Love" mixed with the short story "Ernest
And The Machine God" by Harlan Ellison gave me the ideas for the song
of the same name.

I couldn't have been in a band with Toby and Byron for so long and
not had some of their musical and lyrical stuff have an influence on
me. I don't think I could write like them even if I tried, but watching
their creative processes really helped me in figuring out my own path.

I don't want to give away all the individual influences on the
songs because I am betting that anyone listening with a discerning ear
will be able to pick them out.

The bottom line is that I went
into the album without trying to have an ego of "I want to create some
important piece of music that will challenge songwriting conventions
and change the world!" Instead, I just went in and had fun with it. I
got goofy and maybe overdid some stuff, but at 30 years old I finally
feel like I have developed a songwriting voice and this album
represents and documents the process of that discovery because at each
step of the way in discovering myself I had these songs unfinished and
staring at me begging to be completed, so they became my guinea pigs. Haha.

A Time for Rust is a record that was long in the making. Could
you describe the hurdles you went through to complete the album? How
long did it take you to write and produce the songs, etc.?

The
two biggest hurdles were money and myself. Besides the fact that I
couldn't afford to go in and record as often as I would like, I found
myself getting complacent and going months at a time without working on
it. The basic songs were written in full but all the textures,
overdubs, lyrics, etc. were developed over time, and when personal
stuff and motW/KD came up, the album got put on the back burner. Once I
was able to focus my finances and my creative energy during this past
year, I made a promise to myself to finish the album and here we are. I
can finally put the experience behind me.

I think a big factor in pushing me to finish was that I lost my
mother to cancer last year, and she always supported my music so much
and was so excited to know I was recording my own songs for once. She
was so proud when I gave her a copy of the "Black Light Moon" demo back
in 2006. I felt sad that she would never get to see the finished
product of my labors, and that really lit the fire under my behind to
get cracking.

Everyone has their own songwriting process. Could you describe yours? What do you start with, and where do you go from there?

It
has changed a lot, but basically I come up with a song idea, usually on
an acoustic guitar, and I tend to play the ideas obsessively for a few
days and then demo them. Sometimes I am able to write a full basic song
structure, and sometimes I just have a small bit of it but I keep the
ideas handy on my computer. When I feel that certain pieces go together
I experiment and see if it is cohesive and "meant to be." Once the
basic structure is in place, then the fun begins with solos, harmonies,
keyboards, etc.

I haven't seen a credits list for this record yet. Who else plays on this record, and who's the female vocalist?

The
drums were done by Adam Letourneau, who has been devoted to this
project since we started rehearsing stuff in 1999. Even though it has
been intermittent, he has always been there when I needed him, and his
loyalty and enthusiasm to almost every weird and varied idea I have
musically is what kind of kept me pushing the album forward and really
making this work.

My friend T.L. Conrad is a bassist from the Philly area who I
taught with at a guitar workshop, and I felt he would fit in perfectly.
He played on most of the tracks.

I wanted to work more with John
Battema, who was the keyboardist in the D.C./Virginia bands Ephemeral
Sun and Rain Fell Within, but both of our schedules were busy. I at
least got him to record the keys for "Black Light Moon," which are so
good! 

Jim Fogarty was the engineer on the record -- he played some keyboard and piano parts.

Forbes Graham, who was in KD with me, contributed some eerie trumpet effects which I used in "The Echo Box."

Last but not least, the female vocals were done by my friend Lauren Flaherty, who is a solo artist here in Boston.

Machinery
Listens to Love is a bizarre ambient/synth-based track which stands out
from the rest of the album as the only song without guitars. It reminds
me a bit of late-era Swans. Do you plan to do more stuff like this?

I do plan to do more stuff like that once I learn my synths better!
Machinery really was one of those happy accidents where I found the
right settings and the ideas just came naturally, and since the melodic
elements are based on some of the melodic themes from the song "A Time
For Rust," it made sense to have it as a segue directly following that
song and going into "Black Light Moon." 

I actually recorded two demos of electronic ideas, using the
G-Force M-Tron and Imposcar soft synths, and used samples from a public
domain radio show called "The Price of Fear," which was a series of
horror and suspense mini-plays hosted by Vincent Price on the BBC in
the 70's. They contained some amazing dialogue. If I can finish them in
time, I hope to have them available on the website or as bonus tracks
for people who pre-order the CDs when they are ready.

Any idea when we can expect a release of A Time for Rust in CD form?

All
I can say is soon. Its purely financial. The artwork is done, I got the
quote from the manufacturer and all that jazz, but now I just need the
funds to get it started.

And I want to stress to anyone reading this that if you are
interested in the album but want a physical CD, please purchase the
digital download. Since everyone buying the digital album is doing me a
tremendous favor by contributing to the funds to press the CD, I want
to reward that by promising that I will work out a way to get you the
CD at a drastically reduced rate.

I am not yet sure how it will happen but seeing as how I have a
record of everyone who buys the album digitally, I will most likely be
setting it up so that I will e-mail them personally and sell them the
CD minus the cost of the download. So if the CD goes for $12, then
anyone who buys the download will get it for $4 plus shipping, etc.

This is a learning experience for me at every step of the way and I
want to do right by the people who have offered suggestions, support,
and enthusiasm as the project has progressed.

Self-funded music projects on this scale are typically not significant money-making enterprises. What do you do as a day job?

I work in an office doing very mundane and boring things so I can have health insurance and afford to record and print CDs. =)

I
know you just released your debut album, but have you decided what's
next? Touring? More Baliset material? Other collaborations?

Right now, we are working on getting a live line-up together. We
have Dana Chisholm from the band Dreaded Silence on bass, and we are
looking for another guitarist and a keyboardist, so if anyone is in the
MA area and interested they should give us a shout.

We have a
co-release party scheduled for May 7 at the night club Felt in Boston.
Lauren, who sang on my record, also has a record of her own she just
released called "You Don't Know Me," so we are going to celebrate
together and get her up on stage to sing her parts for my songs live.

I can't imagine us touring for right now because we need to get
some momentum going, and I would rather stay local and wait for the
right opportunity to do more traveling.

I don't think you can
spend seven years writing and recording an album without writing other
stuff, and I am anxious to not repeat the 5 year long recording
process. The next Baliset album is already 70% written and some of it
has already been demoed by Adam and I, so I will hopefully have that
out next year. Also, I have a much sparser acoustic EP in the works
once I can find time to record it at home, and I hope to have that out
in the next year.

I can't forget vinyl. I really believe that vinyl is the way to go
with future releases, so I am hoping to have a vinyl version of "A Time
For Rust" in the near future and for all my future releases. The
Digipak artwork we have for the CD is AMAZING and worth printing, but I
am seeing a trend where CDs, as a physical manifestation of music, are
becoming more and more obsolete. I am thinking a nice half digital/half
vinyl package will be the way to go so that people who want the artwork
will get it in big huge packaging, and those who want just the music
will be able to get that as well. I would hope it is a win-win
situation for all involved.

Finally, what music have you been listening to recently? Any recommendations for our readers?

Well
my taste in music usually gets made fun of, so I tend to not make
recommendations for people to avoid humiliation, but lately I have
found myself listening to: The Black Keys, Ehnahre, Jethro Tull "Thick
As A Brick", W.A.S.P. "The Crimson Idol", 70's Genesis, the
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night soundtrack, ABBA, Aphex Twin, Nation
of Ulysses, Slayer, Exodus, Afroman, Wilson Pickett, Elvis, Johnny
Cash, Ozzy, Metallica, Chroma Key, and my usual suspects who go by the
name of Iron Maiden.

Do you have any final words?

Yes -- if you like what
you have heard of Baliset please consider purchasing the digital
download for $8 because it will go towards supporting independent music
and help us out in spreading the word.

Thank you for the opportunity to talk with you, and thank you to everyone who supported my other projects over the years.

Related stuff:

Baliset home page (including album purchase link): http://www.baliset.net/
Baliset MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/baliset

Baliset - A Time For Rust promo video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j37ppCpE8cI&e

T. L. Conrad's MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/theunionrocks
John Battema's home page: http://www.battema.net/

Forbes Graham's home page: http://www.polyrhythmatics.net/
Jim Forgarty's home page: www.zingstudio.com
Lauren Flaherty's home page: http://www.laurenflaherty.com/

Dreaded Silence home page: http://www.dreadedsilence.com/

Interview by Jimmy Matthews for ProgArchives.com

Edited by auralsun - March 22 2009 at 21:30

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