Atheist bus campaign

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Yes jean, it's funny to read how this people who are sworn enemies odf religion say they  work toward fostering cooperative diversity   This one is better, ths Atheist Organization say they don't believe in Commandmente and call them suggestions (in small font   THE TEN COMMANDMENTS (OF THE ETHICAL ATHEIST) NOTE: Freethought and tolerance obviously prohibit these from being "commandments"!  Just consider them "suggestions". 1.    Thou SHALT NOT believe all thou art told. 2.    Thou SHALT seek knowledge and truth constantly. 3.    Thou SHALT educate thy fellow man in the Laws of Science. 4.    Thou SHALT NOT forget the atrocities committed in the name of god. 5.    Thou SHALT leave valuable contributions for future generations. 6.    Thou SHALT live in peace with thy fellow man. 7.    Thou SHALT live this one life thou hast to its fullest. 8.    Thou SHALT follow a Personal Code of Ethics. 9.    Thou SHALT maintain a strict separation between Church and State. 10.  Thou SHALT support those who follow these commandments.     http://www.ethicalatheist.com/docs/ten_commandments.html   Who will dare to say they donm't have beliefs, hey they have formal Commandments.   Iván

OK, I'm going to say now that I don't believe in belief systems, but I'm kinda liking the atheist commandments, were it not for Iván I might not be about to become a total convert to atheism. 

Edited by Slartibartfast - March 17 2009 at 14:39

Despite what the Bible actually says, Christians are told what to do.  When you are born you are a clean slate, and by teaching kids the Christian religion as truth, you are telling them what to do.  In addition Christian organizations are always saying that things like abortion and pre-marital sex are wrong.  If you say that God wants you to act a certain way, you are essentially telling followers what to do, since if people truly believe that their religion knows what God wants, of course they are going to listen to their religion.  I'm not saying everyone does this, but many do.  I think the confusion comes from the difference from the theoretical to actual reality.  In theory, the Bible describes Christianity, but it doesn't in reality.  For example, the Bible says it's OK to sell your daughter into slavery, kill your kids for being disobedient, and execute those that work on the Sabbath.  It's in the Bible, which is supposedly the word of God, but nobody follows it (although they do often follow the passage that says homosexuality is sinful, which has always confused me.)

Sasquamo wrote: Despite what the Bible actually says, Christians are told what to do.  When you are born you are a clean slate, and by teaching kids the Christian religion as truth, you are telling them what to do.    And when you teach a kid that God doesn't exist also, for God's sake, everty parent is entittled to raise his kids in the faith or lack of it they want, when they reach the adult age they decide, iwas an agnostic when I finished school, but turned into a Catholic believer when I studied Theology.   In addition Christian organizations are always saying that things like abortion and pre-marital sex are wrong.    And Atheists say it's OK....Who is right? I don't know.      If you say that God wants you to act a certain way, you are essentially telling followers what to do, since if people truly believe that their religion knows what God wants, of course they are going to listen to their religion.    If you teach your children there's no God, you are telling them how to think and in what to believe.   I'm not saying everyone does this, but many do.  I think the confusion comes from the difference from the theoretical to actual reality.  In theory, the Bible describes Christianity, but it doesn't in reality.    OPf course not, Christ diidn't came and said "Hey, you are going to be Chriostians", he gave theparamethers and people chose to believe otr not, as a fact if Christ came again he would pray in a Sinagogue.    For example, the Bible says it's OK to sell your daughter into slavery, kill your kids for being disobedient, and execute those that work on the Sabbath.  It's in the Bible, which is supposedly the word of God, but nobody follows it   Because that was a rule done by people from the Brnoce Age, suitable for tyhe Bronce age, the Old testament is as a fact a jewish Book, thatb tells histories with little hitorical support, on the othet hand the New Testament is a book with historical references.   (although they do often follow the passage that says homosexuality is sinful, which has always confused me.)   The Catholic Church considers the sexual act only acceptable inside a marriage and for the purpose of creating a new life, obviously homosexuality escapes to this parameters,. but there's no especific sin of homosexuality, the sin is Impure relations outside the marriage, which includes Homosexual and Heterosexual relations for other purpose than reproductive outside marriage.   Complementaruily:   An authentic pastoral programme will assist homosexual persons at all levels of the spiritual life: through the sacraments, and in particular through the frequent and sincere use of the sacrament of Reconciliation, through prayer, witness, counsel and individual care. In such a way, the entire Christian community can come to recognize its own call to assist its brothers and sisters, without deluding them or isolating them.   This is the official position of the Pope in an Ex Cathedra document, but the Church considers sex is only for reproductuive purpose inside the marriage and that God created two different sexes to complement, they won't change that because they believe the work of God is perfect.   I may not agree with them about many issues and as a fact i don't in this issue, but I can understand a position that is healthy compared to religious groups that go to gay funerals to praise the Lord for killing a sinner or that attack gays in the streets.   Iván

progmetalhead wrote: BaldJean wrote: The T wrote: There are people wanting to join factions everywhere.. So there ARE atheist organizations....   Unlike Christianism or any other religion, though, most atheists don't belong to any group and most are 100% independent. I have never even known of the existence of those bullsh*t atheist organizations.   Christians are told what to believe and follow by churches and priests and books... these atheists you show us seem to be that way, too. Most of us, though, need none to tell us anything. We have our ideas (o lack thereof) from our pure intellectual analysis...   No "commandments" for us... really... if we have to obey a set of rules, we most likely will follow the rule of law.... of secular law... no ridiculous set of rules that state the obvious... (including this ludicrous "atheist ten commandments") sorry T, but simply not true. nobody tells a Christian what to do. it is even in the bible:   Mark 12:29-31   And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord. And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. a true Christian will follow these words. "love thy neighbour" is a very difficult command to follow though; do we not so often have occasion to hate people? it is actually amazing what kind of half-truths are being scattered around about religions   Am I tired or is that not a contradiction of terms???

you are probably tired. aside from following these commandments you are absolutely free to act. the first is even unnecessary if you believe in God. and the second actually does not tell you how to act either, if you look at it closely.
anyway, some people in here people behave as if they could do whatever they want as long as they are not in a religion, which is plain nonsense

Listen, I never said I advocated teaching children atheism, because I agree, that's the same thing as teaching religion.  If I ever have kids, I will never tell them what to believe and I will never let them know what I believe until they have formed an opinion through the only valid way there is of making an opinion: deep critical thinking.

And I do understand the Church's position on homosexuality, I was referring to Protestant denominations that point to that specific Biblical passage to show why homosexual relations are sinful by virtue of being homosexual, when that Bible passage comes from a book that contains many rules even the most fundamental Christians don't follow.  The Bible says that both pork and gay sex are sinful, so how can those people say one rule is just an obsolete tradition while the other is the word of God?

As for the Catholic position, I think it's interesting to note that if you disregard the "because God says so" reason, I don't see how any argument can be made to support the immorality of sex outside of marriage.  To me an immoral action is one that hurts somebody and in this case I'm having trouble thinking of a single reason why sex outside of marriage, in and of itself, could hurt somebody.

Lots of quoting from books penned by man- am I the only one that has trouble with this?

Quite so, Teo.

My parents never mentioned religion or God when I was growing up.  They never told me if I should believe in God or not.  Of course, my father is an Atheist and my mother probably is too (she never mentions religion or God either) but it's only been in later life that my father and I have conversed in religious thought.  He never told me as a child "don't believe in God, it's all bollocks".  I made up my own mind.  As I said earlier, when I was at Junior School aged 8 or 9, I distinctly remember sitting in the School Hall during morning Assembly watching most boys and girls praying.  I never closed my eyes because I did not have a belief.

Of course, some Atheists may have been told as a Child not to believe in God but that was not the case for me.

The T wrote:   And what about just NOT telling your son/daughter what to believe? What about presenting her/him options, books to read, what about letting him/her discover what his/her be;liefs are?   When kids are too young, you have to teach them a moral code, i believe Catholic Moral Code is good, I believe in Cathholic God and i believe I'm entitled to teach them what I believe, but when they are adults they can take the choice they want.   But I would never tell my kid if you steal you are going to hell, I would tell him "Do to others as you want others to do to you, if you don't want to be robbed, then it's bad and don't do it"   When I had 7 years I went with my pals to Super Market, and I took one of those bags of candies that were one meter long, my mother found it and she took me (not to a priest) to the store to give it back, I asked if I had to confess, she told me that's between you and God, so if you think it's wrong, do it.   Every parent entitled to shape their children in any way they want?   Yes they are, it's a natural legally enforced, teach themthe best you can, and for me the best is to teach them to be a good Catholic and a good man/woman.   Don't you think whateber the kid heard as kid will have tremendous influence mover what he thinks as an adult?   Yes, and that's my duty, to form him to be a good person in the best way I can.   Where is his/her REAL freedom to decide?   Until he/she is an adult or at least responsible of his/her acts, I am responsible for them, after that they can decide, as I did, when I became an Agnostic in School, my parents never punished me or forced me to do anything, after studying Theology in the University I DECIDED to be a Catholic, what already was since I was baptized.   Iván

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: The T wrote:   And what about just NOT telling your son/daughter what to believe? What about presenting her/him options, books to read, what about letting him/her discover what his/her be;liefs are?   When kids are too young, you have to teach them a moral code, i believe Catholic Moral Code is good, I believe in Cathholic God and i believe I'm entitled to teach them what I believe, but when they are adults they can take the choice they want.   But I would never tell my kid if you steal you are going to hell, I would tell him "Do to others as you want others to do to you, if you don't want to be robbed, then it's bad and don't do it" Good for you that that you have that clear vision. Sadly, too many cases I've heard, lived close to, and read of kids who hjeard the other kind of answer ("you're going to hell")... Just remember those magical religious schools that thrive in our continent (South America)... My mother himself went to a catholic school run by nuns who used to teach their pupils to FEAR, FEAR, FEAR. That's revolting.  That is abuse of a poor girl's/kid's soul and mind...   When I had 7 years I went with my pals to Super Market, and I took one of those bags of candies that were one meter long, my mother found it and she took me (not to a priest) to the store to give it back, I asked if I had to confess, she told me that's between you and God, so if you think it's wrong, do it. Again, you had the luck of your parents having a better understanding of all of that. Sadly, for most people who blindly follow the teachings of the priest on a sunday morning, the case could be different.   Every parent entitled to shape their children in any way they want?   Yes they are, it's a natural legally enforced, teach themthe best you can, and for me the best is to teach them to be a good Catholic and a good man/woman. Good to teach them to be good man and woman. To teach them to be a good catholic? A good atheist? A good muslim?  better just tell them not to put barriers in their eyes than makes them be different of other people. My opinion of course.    Don't you think whateber the kid heard as kid will have tremendous influence mover what he thinks as an adult?   Yes, and that's my duty, to form him to be a good person in the best way I can. Yes, that's true. But in matter of these subjects which are more abstract and really of the soul, true absolute freedom to decide, in my view, dissapears.    Where is his/her REAL freedom to decide?   Until he/she is an adult or at least responsible of his/her acts, I am responsible for them, after that they can decide, as I did, when I became an Agnostic in School, my parents never punished me or forced me to do anything, after studying Theology in the University I DECIDED to be a Catholic, what already was since I was baptized.  Again, you have been very lucky.   By the way, I was baptized catholic and did the first communion and the confirmation. But in the end I'm not catholic because of that. I'm an unbeliever and ultimately a DOUBTING person because I DECIDED ad you said Ivan. I don't really know if there isn't a god or there is one. I JUST DON'T THINK THERE IS ONE, BUT WON'T CLAIM TO HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE TO COMPLETELY DENY THE POSSIBILITY OF ITS EXISTENCE.   Iván Teo       stonebeard wrote: I believe most accusations of the complete moral vacuum without a God comes from religious people who cannot possibly conceive of morality without someone looking over you and threatening to smite you if you disobey.   There are fanatics everywhere, there are also Argeists that believe Religion is basd per se and forget all the important values that they teach to people. There are idiots everywhere, as the "commandments" you posted truly show.   Now, I don'tb belñieve there are too many persons who are good because fear of God exclusively, I believe I'm an honest person, because my parents taught me well and I'm a person wiilling to try to be good. Naturally, this is the most depraved, sick, unhumaistic, and downright evil conception of morality possible.   Of course it is, but you are talking about Fundamentalists, who scare the sh!t out of me also.   Iván