Bad Lyrics in Prog

^DT's lyrics became crap once John Myung stopped writing.

I agree that all genres have bad lyrics, so maybe it is unfair to single out prog. But for a genre that is loved by many for the intricate musicianship and complexity of song, the bad lyrics just seem to stick out even more. I mean, we all expect Nickleback's lyrics to suck the hard one, but there music does too, so it evens out. It isn't even for bands like DT and Symphony X, because like 'em or hate 'em, there is no doubt they are talented.

And, as to my signature of "I repeat myself under stress," it is a joke, and a lyric used in a King Crimson song (can't remember which one, it's off of one of the blue/yellow/red albums) that gave me a chuckle.

Edit: It might be from the song "Elephant Talk."


Edited by ~Rael~ - February 24 2009 at 17:01

p0mt3 wrote: Trademark wrote: ^^ That was just a marketing ploy.  Wilson moved PT to  the Roadrunner label (the lonely teenage boy angst label) and he wrote an album that catered specifically to that market segment.  Derek Shulman should be drawn and quartered for Roadrunner, but for him it's all about making money now, he left the music waaaaay behind. One post u[ to Erpland's post    No one seems to realize that FOABP is a concept record told through a teenager's point of view. The lyrics were written the way they were for a reason.

Exactly. They're not selling out by marketing to emo kids, they're writing in character as a critique or maybe even satire of emo kids. It's exactly the opposite.

And as for your sig, Rael... it's "Indiscipline."

AlexUC wrote: sleeper wrote: There is a lot of really crap lyrics in prog (Yes, a lot of Dream Theater (but certainly not all), Beardfish, ELP, Rush etc) and then there's a lot of excellent lyrics (Marillion, Genesis, Van der Graaf Generator, Pain of Salvation etc) but the majority is just OK, with nothing special about them but hardly cring worthy. This is not anything special because most genres are like this, with a few really great lyricists, several really crap lyricists and many that are just OK.  Agreed. In fact I would add, which other genre features interesting lyrics? Pop ? Jazz ? Classical ? Folk ? Metal ? I think prog is one of the very few musical genres interested in exposing at least some coherent ideas on the lyrics

Also, for the record, there are many metal bands not listed on PA that actually write good lyrics.


Edited by MrEdifus - February 24 2009 at 17:16

fuxi wrote: OzzProg wrote: A good example of this would be Aisles of Plenty by Genesis; the lyrics are meaningless, but just sound so damn cool in the song. Aisle of Plenty makes a lot of sense, especially when you realise much of it is made up of puns on the names of British supermarkets, like Tesco and Safeway! And rattling off the names and prices of store products is pure poetry.

Ok, well you are correct. If you deeply look into pretty much any lyric, it is meaningful / funny in some way or another. The point I was trying to make is that, in most songs you would hear, rattling off the names and prices of foods would sound absolutely terrible. However, in the certain context of Aisles of Plenty, it works wonderfully, making good use of the lyrics.


Edited by OzzProg - February 24 2009 at 18:00

I think metal is one of the better genres for music, but maybe that's just because I can't understand them most of the time. I do like Lamb of God's lyrics though (for the most part). He is one of this rare screamer/growlers who enunciates, haha.

And I recent that slam against roadrunner. I like a lot of bands on that label. YOU HAVE GREATLY OFFENDED ME.

Erpland316 wrote: Another band worth mentioning is Porcupine Tree.  One has to admit their lyrics especially on FOABP are very cheesy.  Mr. Wilson took the whole teenage angst/xbox loving thing way to far.

The lyrics of In Absentia are good. They're quite delusional and make little sense but I also enjoy the lyrics of the sky moves sideways. They're poetic at least.

AlexUC wrote: sleeper wrote: There is a lot of really crap lyrics in prog (Yes, a lot of Dream Theater (but certainly not all), Beardfish, ELP, Rush etc) and then there's a lot of excellent lyrics (Marillion, Genesis, Van der Graaf Generator, Pain of Salvation etc) but the majority is just OK, with nothing special about them but hardly cring worthy. This is not anything special because most genres are like this, with a few really great lyricists, several really crap lyricists and many that are just OK.  Agreed. In fact I would add, which other genre features interesting lyrics? Pop ? Jazz ? Classical ? Folk ? Metal ? I think prog is one of the very few musical genres interested in exposing at least some coherent ideas on the lyrics

Wrong. You clearly haven't listened to other genres besides prog. There's a lot of absolutely beatiful lyrics in many genres.

I agree with you, Blacksword, that by the time of TORMATO, Yes sounded awfully cheesy. You can hear it not just in the lyrics, but in Rick Wakeman's keyboard solos as well. (Rick sounds particularly ugly in "Don't kill the whale" which, however, has some great guitar!)

But don't forget there was a lot of cheese on GFTO as well. Take these immortal lines from "Turn of the Century":

Roan shaped his heart
Thru his working hands
Work to mould his passion into clay
Like the sun

Does the sun feel passion? Does it mould clay? Is Roan like the sun in any way?

And also, I think that both "Circus of Heaven" and "Arriving UFO" are a kind of self-parody.

"Arriving UFO" is the humorous counterpart of "Wonderous stories" (a track I've always intensely disliked), and in "Circus of Heaven" Jon Anderson mocks his own past attempts at writing epic ""poetry"" (the word should be put between at least double inverted commas), as you can see in:

For what seemed only just a moment in time
Seven solemn flying silvered regal horses rode by
Seven golden chariots in tow, a wonder to behold
The Seven Lords of the Mountains of Time

The fact that his little son complains there are "no clowns" could even be seen as a critique of 1970s progressive rock as a whole! Most of it had become far too pompous (cf. ELP's WORKS Vols. I/II). In many ways, bands like Madness, Ian Dury and the Blockheads and even Kid Creole and the Coconuts injected rock music with a spirit of fun that proved more than welcome! Yes would benefit from the same re-vitalised spirit when they recorded the excellent DRAMA. (Tellingly, without those prime cheesemongers Anderson and Wakeman.)

Of course it's true J.A.'s little boy sounds awfully sentimental... My guess is that he had actually spoken the same words when the Andersons visited some over-flashy circus. A pity Jon wasn't able to record the little chap when his words sounded more natural and spontaneous...

fuxi wrote: I agree with you, Blacksword, that by the time of TORMATO, Yes sounded awfully cheesy. You can hear it not just in the lyrics, but in Rick Wakeman's keyboard solos as well. (Rick sounds particularly ugly in "Don't kill the whale" which, however, has some great guitar!) But don't forget there was a lot of cheese on GFTO as well. Take these immortal lines from "Turn of the Century": Roan shaped his heart Thru his working hands Work to mould his passion into clay Like the sun Does the sun feel passion? Does it mould clay? Is Roan like the sun in any way? And also, I think that both "Circus of Heaven" and "Arriving UFO" are a kind of self-parody. "Arriving UFO" is the humorous counterpart of "Wonderous stories" (a track I've always intensely disliked), and in "Circus of Heaven" Jon Anderson mocks his own past attempts at writing epic ""poetry"" (the word should be put between at least double inverted commas), as you can see in: For what seemed only just a moment in time Seven solemn flying silvered regal horses rode by Seven golden chariots in tow, a wonder to behold The Seven Lords of the Mountains of Time The fact that his little son complains there are "no clowns" could even be seen as a critique of 1970s progressive rock as a whole! Most of it had become far too pompous (cf. ELP's WORKS Vols. I/II). In many ways, bands like Madness, Ian Dury and the Blockheads and even Kid Creole and the Coconuts injected rock music with a spirit of fun that proved more than welcome! Yes would benefit from the same re-vitalised spirit when they recorded the excellent DRAMA. (Tellingly, without those prime cheesemongers Anderson and Wakeman.) Of course it's true J.A.'s little boy sounds awfully sentimental... My guess is that he had actually spoken the same words when the Andersons visited some over-flashy circus. A pity Jon wasn't able to record the little chap when his words sounded more natural and spontaneous...

Good points there, fuxi.

'Turn of the Century' does have some dodgy lines in it, but overall I think it's a very heartfelt story Anderson is trying to tell, and musically its near perfect for the Yes formula at the time.

I like to think of Circus of Heaven being parody. It's awkward to think of grown men in one of my favourote bands taking that seriously.

Generally speaking I'm not a big lyrics man anyway, but when they really stand out, and a song is built so much around the narrative, dodgy lyrics can be really off putting for me. Yes have never really been coherent song writers in terms of their lyrics, imo, but Anderson has often been able to use words, to perfectly fit the musical accompanment. Close to the Edge, as a case in point, is meaningless to me as a concept; indeed knowing what it's about, may strip the piece of its mysterious charm. But, Andersons voice becomes another instrument in the band, and the words he chooses, for their sound, become part of the rhythms and melodies. It's a classic Yes formula.

I remember reading that Chris Squire looked forward to being there when Jon Anderson was interviwed, and asked about the meaning of his lyrics. Squire said, after the interviews neither HE nor the interviewer were really any the wiser

^^^ Makes you wonder how many Yes fans invested hours of their time, trying to analyse all those lyrics, trying to find depth and meaning..