Cat Stevens & Marillion

Reed,that the Jews invented monotheism is a matter of historical fact. Do you have any other candidates in mind? The only recent one is Aknathen as I mentioned. Have your historical knowledge in order before you venture into a discussion on the subject. There's a reason I never get into a discussion on auto mechanics: I know nothing about it. And the intelligent alternative to monotheism is of course: No-theism.

I would recommend  "The Source" by James Michener,an excellent run through of the history of the Jews.

Touche about the monotheistic point,foiled by my own reasoning!

But since no person daring to call himself an intelligent being will question that,as someone once said, religion is a form of mental illness,the fact that millions of people believe that god created himself proves only the rather pathetic state of human minds in general and not that their assertion is a true one. Millions of people all over the world firmly believe that they are routinely abducted by aliens,but however many there are,and however convinced they are that they're right,doesn't make them right. When christianity was introduced in Greece the greek philosophers thought the christian notion of blind faith quite ridiculous since,as they said: You can't believe,you must know. In other words: The way to view the world is to gather the facts and base your views on that. Not to have a pre conceived notion and then try to force the world to conform to that notion. That has always been the religious way and it's obviously wrong,so no amount of fervent belief from any religious quarter can shake the anthropological and psychological facts that quite clearly show that man created god,not the other way round. So whoever did create monotheism,it must have been a human agency since god is part of mankind's mythology like Jupiter,Hydra,The Easter Bunny or Gandalf,and as far as I'm aware,no figment of human imagination has ever created itself,therefore the religious viewpoint is a moot one.

And,by the way,the phenomenon of religion was actually invented by our long lost  forebears,the Neanderthals about 70 000 years ago and the Neanderthals were too simple and too un-evolved to have had anything like a theology,they reacted purely instinctively,which proves quite conlusively that the origin of religion lies in simple fear of natural forces and has nothing to do with Zeus,Jupiter,God,Allah,Buddha,L.Ron Hubbard or any of the other billion forms it has since taken.

Velvetclown wrote: Well spoken Pixel !!!!

I think we've been here before...

Are you being ironic?

You Velveteen Fool you!

Can you imagine God creating Velvetclown ???????? I rest my case !!

As for who invented monotheism,that's the easy one. How do we know that Thomas Edison invented the lightbulb? Because no lightbulbs existed before him. How do we know the Jews invented monotheism? Because no such concept existed before Judeaism. (Let's forget about the pharaohs for now,too needlessly complicated).

As far as the case for the existance of god goes. Of course I can't deny that there might exist in the universe some force of some kind that we might,for want of a better word,call god. I'm obviously not denying that,no one can. What I am denying,completely and emphatically based on the mass of evidence at hand,is that the god of the christian bible is real. It has MYTHOLOGICAL written all over it in bright flashing neon letters.

And who had the first monotheistic society or what the neanderthals did is most certainly not speculation. What do think historians,anthropologists and archeologists do for a living? But the topic is vast and cannot possibly be contained within the confines of a discussion forum on a website so I can only point you in the direction of the following books:

"When The Gods Came Down" by Alan Alford.

"The Jesus Mysteries" by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy

"The Secrets Of The Exodus" by Messod and Roger Sabbah

"From Atlantis To The Sphinx" by Colin Wilson

And of course the religious criticisms of Nietzsche,Freud,Bertrand Russel and H.L.Mencken.

And as a counterweight,two intelligent and enlightened arguments in favour of the existance of a god:

"God's Secret Formula" by Peter Plichta

"The Infinite Harmony:Musical Structures In Science And Theology" by Michael Hayes.

This is not to come across as all snooty and intellectually snobbish,just to emphasise once again that this subject is huge and falls way outside the confines of a little discussion forum on prog rock website.

Is there any real debate? Judaism was most definitely the first major monotheistic religion. Is someone saying otherwise? I'll beat 'em up for you

Pixel Pirate wrote: As for who invented monotheism,that's the easy one. How do we know that Thomas Edison invented the lightbulb? Because no lightbulbs existed before him. How do we know the Jews invented monotheism? Because no such concept existed before Judeaism. (Let's forget about the pharaohs for now,too needlessly complicated). As far as the case for the existance of god goes. Of course I can't deny that there might exist in the universe some force of some kind that we might,for want of a better word,call god. I'm obviously not denying that,no one can. What I am denying,completely and emphatically based on the mass of evidence at hand,is that the god of the christian bible is real. It has MYTHOLOGICAL written all over it in bright flashing neon letters. And who had the first monotheistic society or what the neanderthals did is most certainly not speculation. What do think historians,anthropologists and archeologists do for a living? But the topic is vast and cannot possibly be contained within the confines of a discussion forum on a website so I can only point you in the direction of the following books: "When The Gods Came Down" by Alan Alford. "The Jesus Mysteries" by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy "The Secrets Of The Exodus" by Messod and Roger Sabbah "From Atlantis To The Sphinx" by Colin Wilson And of course the religious criticisms of Nietzsche,Freud,Bertrand Russel and H.L.Mencken. And as a counterweight,two intelligent and enlightened arguments in favour of the existance of a god: "God's Secret Formula" by Peter Plichta "The Infinite Harmony:Musical Structures In Science And Theology" by Michael Hayes. This is not to come across as all snooty and intellectually snobbish,just to emphasise once again that this subject is huge and falls way outside the confines of a little discussion forum on prog rock website.

Archeologists and Anthropologists  they never speculate?

As for Colin Wilson? Alan Alford? Roger effing Sabbah!

This is some kind of wind up right?

Needless to say these "experts" should keep their speculation for the Fortean Times! To mention these people in any half-serious debate is just well......

threefates wrote: Geez... God must really be proud at how smart all of you think you have become...

I'm pretty sure that I'm not smart enough to understand that comment