Genesis the most influential prog band?

 

Never said Genesis lacked of technical facilities, they learned how to leave their virtuosism in favour ogf the band.

 

Now, about teamwork, i'm not saying that most of the bands didn't worked because they were not a team, I say that most of the bands based more their musical output in their virtuosism and itr worked for them,

 

King Crimson is Fripp and anybody else as Jethro Tull with Ian.

 

Yes worked as a team, but valued personal abilities in more degree than Genesis, take for example the title track of Close to the Edge, you take the Wakeman solo and you still have a good track, not fantastic, but very good, you can't take a single keyboard note of almost any Genesis track, because you ruin the whole song, and even worst, if you take Hackett or Banks from any early track it will never be the same.

 

Lets remember how many personal problems Yes had:

Only one original Yes member has been in all the albums (Squire), and always sounded great on stage no matter how many original members were on the band.

 

So I believe this bands had ego problems.

 

Genesis found their perfect lineup (previously lost Phillips because his stage panic), the whole band regret it, Peter left for personal problems and Steve because lack of composition chances, but none of them (Except Ant) was replaced, and the sound of the band changed dramatically.

 

Genesis was a well oiled machine, lost two parts and had to change dramatically, no matter how many changes Yes, King Crimson or tull had, they always managed to sound almost as well.

 

Iván

 

Having said that....I remember a very interesting interview in SI magazine with Hackett in which he was openly talking about his attitute while he was in Genesis....and the way that everyone show bow for them cos he was the guitarist of this incredible cool band called Genesis...'Reminding girls he was dating that they should be grandfull to him for giving them the honor to date them.'.......I sometimes tend to believe that the whole reason why he left Genesis was exactly because of his ego....cos lets face it in his solowork and tours he always takes the mainstage and the spotlight is always on him. I remember I a interview once where he explained him with a watertap.....After Gabriel left all the bandmembers had to contribute to the songwritingprocess and as he descriped it, this worked as a watertap that once you open it....you cannot close it anymore and the ideas keep on coming....more and more they could not be realized anymore in within the bands ideas ans so he left to go his own way....I think in that perspective we should have great admiration for the other 3 days did their solo thing while staying in Genesis....as we'll......For example after the famous rejection of In The Air Tonight by the other bandmembers........this becoming a major hit its a miracle that Collins didn't leave much earlier.....And as far as Gabriel matters....his departure was personal....and as far as I can understand had much to do with the fact that he didn't want Genesis to have only one face....so he left for the benefit of the others....to shine more....that indeed cannot be called an ego......and if you draw this forward to his solowork......During concerts Peter still is that No Nonsence person.....I remember in 2003 he announced his own supportact....and he just walk upon the stage...and begins to play.....thats it......And yes, his shows are incredible visual.....and interesting but perhaps as stated above...once more to create diversion and lead the attention away from him.....In 1993 one of my friends tried to meet Peter in Rotterdam, when he played in Ahoy.....when he asked one of the crewmembers if Peter already arrived...they answered him 'Peter is biking around on his mountainbike in the city, he will be back in a short while.'  And after a while....he did....he took pictures of Peter biking and arriving back there....so funny...and such a normal person.....Something also often confirmed by others. Youssou N' Dour....for example...keeps on praising Peter for his sincerity of the African Cause, his true interest in African Music and his warm personality.....And on the stage you can see that....they always have so much fun.....and always seem to have such a good time......

 

In Relation to Yes.....I think its fair to state that they were in much much more problems than any other band...although its also true that the departures of Wakeman (this guy seems to act like a trafficlight sometimes) is not always due to his own personal reasons but also because recordcompanies demanded him to record some solo stuff....I remember that his departure after the Keys recordings were pure contractwise back then.....But in general its indeed a band of fully blown ego's (altough not so terrible as ELP (Didn't Palmer agree that he will never play with ELP again, after what Emerson wrote about him in his biography), or Robert Fripp that is the true core of KC (Possible with the cooperation of Bruford)) I still remember that concert in Amsterdam for the Symphonic Tour of Yes...where Chris and Jon got this argument about if they should play Owner Of A Lonely Heart or not...and Jon came back on the stage...asking the audience with an enormously sarcastic tone 'Chris, wants to play Owner Of A Lonely heart...do you want to hear it ?'  I mean this this kind of actions cant be good for a band as a team......and now that whole thing that they decide to go on tour without Jon....There is always something with this band I must say....but yes....incredible musicians......and owners of one of the greatest Prog pieces in the history of rock music.

 

Now in that perspective....and coming the true Prog classics...I think all of the albums from Trespass to Seconds Out should fall in that category. I agree with the radical turn the band took from FGTR to Trespass, cos this 2 albums could not be more different than this 2 are. However it is not true that the turn was as radical as the albums both imply.....The Knife for example was already played much earlier and is by far not as radical as it sounds if you only go off on the albums....One should listen to The Nice (the song was even called like that in the beginning) and then straight to the Knife.....and one can hear its mere a change of influence what we see here............The introduction of the Mellotron ...the release of Odessey And Oracle of The Zombies in 1967 what was according Banks THE album after which bands began to use the Mellotron on a high scale......KIng Crimson (as Hacket often states as his main influence) etc. Besides several members confirmed that with FGTR they only tried to please their contracter and therefor tried to create a Bee Gees sound......Live it was indeed a really different story....Peter's famous stagediving acts....during this 20 min. versions of The Knife.....must have created a much rougher/harder sound that was a far cry from FGTR......this sound has been further exploited on Trespass and eventually took them....to sharpen this sound more.....pollish it and refine it....so that eventually the came to write all that now classic albums.......and which for me came to an absolute highlight with The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway.......

 

Realised they were on the same label, didn't know they toured together, so must give a retrospective to the cross fertilisation concept. I love both Gabriel and Hammill's approach.

 

Guess I'll have to be either rabid or an aadvaark - not both. Thanks for the insight.

 

Wise man he converts through the years...

 

Would be interest to ask him

Now that's a different line of thought and yes, the loss of a key band member, whether for ego clashes or any other reason, can affect the quality of the band's music.  But then again, it may or may not.  The four man Genesis albums are a bit of a step down from the Gabriel albums but they are still great and are highly rated here too.  And Drama is so much better than Tormato one wonders now why people complained about the loss of Anderson!  There are many such examples:  Black Sabbath made their best album - at least imo - Heaven and Hell after Ozzy left the band and replacing such a dominant vocalist was no mean task.  In short, what I was trying to say was it would not put me off that the band had personality clashes or the sort - I should think very few big bands wouldn't! - and it would not affect my judgment of the quality of the music. But of course, the loss of band members or internal struggles can and has often affected the band's future albums.

Edit: And about the Jon Camp thing, one doesn't KNOW per se, one can only conjecture and surmise and draw one's own conclusions because no band is going to openly say we don't need this fellow because he failed to deliver a hit for us.  But when you consider that Camp had nothing to do with the Haslam/Gosling/Dunford trio Nevada which apparently recorded Fairies (before the release of Camera Camera),  Annie's statements look very contradictory.  

 

But yes, it must have been extremely difficult to keep both parties statisfied.....Although I wonder if it was due the fact they had a bussinessmind....I think that the tendency to write more single based material always has been there...Banks on the first remaster box speaks very interesting about the way this all came down after Hackett left and lost his main compainion in writing more longer and experimental pieces and Collins and Rutherford became to get the overhand.

 

Neither do I know if we can say that they put their faith in the prog fanbase....if that is true, then I keep on wondering why of the 165 min....the last setlist was still containing so much singles.....and did they came up with I Can't Dance as the first encore....the ultimate letdown if you ask me....if your statement was true...and god I hoped that they really had placed our faith in us......then they would go on tour and play only pre-1977 stuff......If they really wanted to win us back again....the announcement pressconference should have had the the question 'Will you play Suppers Ready ?' as a definate Yes....instead...

 

And that alot of members felt sort of not really connected with the Lamb, does not really come as a surprise to me....After alll it really was Peter's project (definatly lyricwise) and Peter locked himself up for a few weeks, completely desolated from the rest and came up with this texts.....I think that indeed must have felt rather strange for them....And then to play it live....yes,...its never really easy to sing oth one's lyrics...and to place emotion in things you dont understand (like Hogarth with Fish songs).

 

Pity...