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Topic ClosedGenesis the most influential prog band?
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toolis View Drop Down
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Points: 1678 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2009 at 05:20
Originally posted by topofsm topofsm wrote:

Hmm, this is how I'd say it is:


King Crimson was the first prog band.

Yes is the band most representative of prog.

Pink Floyd is the most popular and most influental prog band (probably not as influential in the realm of prog, but they've certainly influenced more bands in general than any prog band).

Genesis is the prog that most prog is based on (c'mon, any neo or retro prog band is basically Genesis with electronic synthesizers instead of mellotron).

 

Can't really say much about any other bands.



excellent... agreed 100%

all of the bands mentioned above, played a significant role for music in general...

Peter Gabriels has virtualy influenced all thetrical performers, eg Fish or Daniel Gildenlow, not to mention his influence on stage show..
indeed, the whole symphonic, art, neo prog rock or metal at some point reminds me of Genesis.. very often i find every note of Musical Box in bands from metal to rock, prog or not...
-music is like pornography...

sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...



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Points: 4202 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2009 at 05:53
The King Crimson and Pink Floyd influence is all over the music map. You can't say the same about ELP, Yes of Genesis (70's version, that is).

Besides, most bands in everything from RIO/Avant to Symphonic are in depth to KC. Most Kraut, Psych and Spacerock to early PF

In modern progressive music, King Crimson is a lot more influential than any other band.  
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Points: 7851 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2009 at 17:25
Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

Never listened to The Watch. Been meaning to, though. Why, are they supposed to suck, or something?

If you like singers copying Gabriel you'll probably like The Watch. They are good musicians, though not my cup of tea.
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Points: 997 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2009 at 18:01
Can't believe nobody here brought up The Flower Kings and related bands (Karmakanic, Kaipa, The Tangent, Tomas Bodin etc). They are surely influenced by Yes much more than by any of the other "greats" of the '70. Just listen to Jonas Reingold's bass play...if you don't hear a Chris Squire there somewhere then I must be deaf...They clearly mix it with more jazz influences as Yes, though...
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2009 at 18:06
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

Never listened to The Watch. Been meaning to, though. Why, are they supposed to suck, or something?

If you like singers copying Gabriel you'll probably like The Watch. They are good musicians, though not my cup of tea.
 
I don't ike singers who intentinally copy Gabriel, no. I was just saying earlier that I didn't think Fish from Marillion was actually doing that.
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Points: 3577 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2009 at 18:30
Not the most, but one of the influential prog bands
 
There many musicians and groups influenced by Genesis and not have to be clones.
 
Example: Anglagard, sure is not a clone of Genesis but they have influence on them.
 
 




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Points: 1601 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2009 at 18:49
Originally posted by topofsm topofsm wrote:

Hmm, this is how I'd say it is:

King Crimson was the first prog band.
Yes is the band most representative of prog.
Pink Floyd is the most popular and most influental prog band (probably not as influential in the realm of prog, but they've certainly influenced more bands in general than any prog band).
Genesis is the prog that most prog is based on (c'mon, any neo or retro prog band is basically Genesis with electronic synthesizers instead of mellotron).
 
Can't really say much about any other bands.
 
I'm going to have to  heavily disagree with King Crimson being the first prog band.  They're ony of my favorite bands, and they definitely heavily shaped the sound to come, but first?  Bull.
 
For starters, In the Court of the Crimson King sounds A LOT like a more demonic sounding Moody Blues, who had three albums out before the end of 1969 (I'm not sure if the last of the three was before or after ITCOTCK as it was the same year, but the first two were) .  Then theres The United States of America-The American Metaphysical Circus, which is as early as 1968, and you could definitely find more and probably beat me out on something earlier too. 
 
On top of all of that, I don't see how "the most influential prog band" means very much. The bands can be influential over all, and that can mean something, but progressive rock is really just a continuation of psychedelia, many bands were moving there at the exact same time and it was going to happen.
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Points: 7851 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2009 at 18:56
Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

I don't ike singers who intentinally copy Gabriel, no. I was just saying earlier that I didn't think Fish from Marillion was actually doing that.

Then you can listen to the sample and watch videos on The Watch page http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=638 and decide by yourself. Wink
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Points: 19 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2009 at 22:40
You've gotta say King Crimson and Yes over Genesis. Gabe went on to do more expansive things with prog rock, but In the Court and the Yes Album were landmarks, like nothing can stand in the way of them. You can talk about The Beatles and Cream and them all you want, but this is where true prog rock began to cook. 
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Points: 825 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2009 at 02:35
yes Clown
progressive rock and rural tranquility don't match. true or false?
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Points: 392 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2009 at 14:53
Oh no.. The most influential syndrome again... Frank Zappa is the most influential, that was decided long time ago
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Points: 4287 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2009 at 07:52
It all started with Stravinsky..................................no before that was..................
 
 
Or as of John of Salisbury :
"We are like dwarfs sitting on the shoulders of giants. We see more, and things that are more distant, than they did, not because our sight is superior or because we are taller than they, but because they raise us up, and by their great stature add to ours."
 
My point is no ONE person or group will ever be the most influential, cos everyone is "standing on the shoulder of others that came before them", that is the nature of sience as well as culture. 


Edited by tamijo - February 05 2009 at 07:59
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Points: 385 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2009 at 17:53
To reach a final word about the 'most influential prog band ever',we could argue forever and probably NEVER decide.I do,however,consider Genesis the prog band who played the most important part in the shaping of what would eventually become sort of 'mainstream' music later on.Maybe even more than Pink Floyd,a band people seem to have completely ignored in this thread,which is honestly sad.
I say this because I personally see in The Lamb many traces of punk rock,a genre yet to be developed by 74.
Also,the idea of a strong 'band identity'(which every band tryes to own nowadays)or charisma was never so strong before Genesis.
Musically,I see Pink Floyd as the too easy reply to this question....then again,I seem to be the only one.
As for musical 'tendencies',yeah,I would say Genesis,though I think A trick of the tail was kind of a step bacwards in that way for the band.
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Points: 70 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2009 at 22:30
Sigh! It's not a question of how many clones or imitators.........pure and simple:
Who has inspired and discovered more truly original, distinct  contributors to progressive music?
There is no perfect answer, of course, but
- King Crimson under Robert Fripp's leadership
- Yes, under Anderson and  Squire's  leadership
- Genesis, under Peter Gabriel's leadership
- Frank Zappa
- Return to Forever, under C.C.'s leadership
- Utopia, under Todd Rundgren's leadersip
- Henry Cow, and a host of others....ELP and the whole litany.

So the answer is no! Emphatically. There is no single most influential band.
It takes a great combination of high quality talents and leadership...even if it means knowing how to let each member find his own voice and best kind of contributiions to the whole of the group.
What's critical is what inspires originality and promotes new talent that makes a band "influential".
Defference to others if this point was made before.

But the key idea is that there is NO ONE band that was most influential in cloning  "sound alikes" or "genre blends".  It's simply what list of bands (AND LEADERS) who were prolific in spawning new genres, wholly new and singularly original sounds and styles that is more meaningful.  So Genesis, without Gabriel, they were just a bunch of wanderers. They were not even the best of their instrumental trades. Together, with Gabriel's ideas, they were something. MOST influential. Ugh! Not! Just one of many.
Breifly a Nova that comes and goes in the crowded sky of points of musical light.

This thread should be over by now.  We were not all born yesterday.  How do we move foreward beyond metal and negativity into a new positive era....where are the new professionals?......Beyond looking at the collaborators of the talents that have already made their mark.
Enough.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 04:20
Originally posted by cacho cacho wrote:


Can you please name me at least 2 Peter Gabriel clones?


I can name one, who is far more Gabriel influenced than the likes of Fish:

Guy Garvey of Elbow. If you have not heard him, then youtube some of their songs. It could actually be Gabriel at times, especially on songs like 'Starlings' or 'Picky Bugger' He is of course a huge Genesis fan.
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Points: 1125 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 13:38
Originally posted by The Miracle The Miracle wrote:

Due to a complete lack of means to measure influence or any statistical data whatsoever, this statement really can't be disputed in any sort of a credible way.

And the reason there are more Gabriel clones is because hardly anyone actually likes Anderson's voice, as much as we all tolerate itWink


You have to be having a huge laugh Miracle;Jon Anderson the most moving of Prog's voices and ny favourite but Hammill has the best voice of all with Gabriel close behind.

You are right Gabriel's voice can copied to an extent but there is only one masterpiece.As for who had the most influence you might as well chuck confetti in the air our opinions differ.
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Points: 17055 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2009 at 16:12
Originally posted by Fragile Fragile wrote:

[QUOTE=The Miracle]You have to be having a huge laugh Miracle;Jon Anderson the most moving of Prog's voices and ny favourite but Hammill has the best voice of all with Gabriel close behind.


Naturally, opinions are all over the map. When I used to frequent the now-defunct Greg Lake forum, 99% of its membership clung to the notion that Greg's voice was the "best in the biz" in the '70s. Forget everybody else, from Plant to Anderson (either one) to Hammill to Wetton to Byron to Osbourne to Mercury to whoever...Greg Lake was "The Voice."

Of course, I've also seen Steve Perry and Paul Rodgers each referred to as "The Voice."

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Points: 259 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2009 at 17:23
Genesis?  The most influential band?

The most overrated, yes...but not the most influential.
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2009 at 17:28
Originally posted by Lucent Lucent wrote:

Genesis?  The most influential band?

The most overrated, yes...but not the most influential.
 
What a lot of arguments you give.....
 
 
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Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2009 at 17:33
Only at Progarchives could there be so many dismissive of Genesis' legacy and influence. The issue isnt whether you like Genesis but if you are steeped in enough Prog history to recognise their influence. Some of the most forceful nay-sayers hadnt even heard of Prog Rock 10 years ago.

Truly bizarre!
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