Forum Home Forum Home > Topics not related to music > Just for Fun
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Why ABBA should be adde to ProgArchives
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedWhy ABBA should be adde to ProgArchives

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
moodyxadi View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 01 2005
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 417
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why ABBA should be adde to ProgArchives
    Posted: January 15 2009 at 20:10
< ="-" ="text/; =utf-8">< name="ProgId" ="Word.">< name="Generator" ="Microsoft Word 10">< name="Originator" ="Microsoft Word 10">

Why ABBA should be added to progarchives.com

 

Let’s begin by the concept of prog related itself: any kind of music made in the western society in the sixties or seventies is prog related one way or another. Even punk is prog related and conceptually, as a movement, had this “prog flavour” of being artistically compromised with an idea of how rock music should sound to be rock. Punk “receive a great influence of prog rock”, trying to sound as its antithesis. If this isn’t an influence I don’t know what is.

But the prog related concept (as there isn’t a prog related movement) seems to be more groundbased in this site. Some of the most controversial adds in PA were justified very clearly with this argument: “the owners (usually M@x) wanted the group X here”. Of course there was some diatribes about the representativity of the added group to the prog world, but it always seems to be more a excuse to distract the members of the forum from the simple truth: the owner’s will shall be seen as the ultimate statement about the progginess of a band, because they have the power to include any band they like in the “ultimate prog rock music website”. Seems childish but the inclusion of Zep, Black Sabbath, Maiden, Queen and Rainbow in this site justify my thoughts that some people think that they are “guilty” for liking bands that clearly are not prog. So they create this magic label, “prog related”, to add the groups they like and save them from the shame of not being a “true prog fan”. Any relation with the extreme metal discussins about being “true” or not isn’t a coincidence.

 

But this is not very important. My point is: after being a member of this site, reading reviews, listening to a lot of recommendations and discovering the real meaning of the banner “prog related”, I want to propose an addition to PA: ABBA.

 

I believe that ABBA can be classified under the prog related label as defined in PA, without apeeal to any consideration about  the owner’s feelings on them. Some of the reasons for ABBA’s presence here are below:

 

1)      ABBA should be judged by the eyes of its historical importance, nor by their fame as a non-musical outfit or a pop-marketing phenomenon of the seventies. Old guys, put your prejudice aside, please. Even if they had their affair with disco many other bands of that era had too, prog (Banco) or non-prog (Kiss). Commercial success can’t be considered a “demerit” for any group, at least if they remain musically consistent through the years. And ABBA’s career, after the promising beginning with the hard boogie “Waterloo” and their fight for the success beyond the Eurovision wave, show that they create a musical language of themselves, enriching their music with influences from the whole world, lyrically and musically speaking.

2)      I’d say more: even if you judge ABBA’s music based only in a greatest hits compilation (ABBA Gold, for instance) you can find enough elements to defend their “prog related” status in the lines of what PA defines as being this awkward category.

3)      One concerning that someone with prejudice against the Swedens’ prog marks could be argued based on ABBA’s lyrics. Some of them are so stupid that only because of their wonderful pop hooks and melodic variations we can still hear without becoming instantaneously deaf (Honey Honey anyone?). Well. I really believe that lyrics don’t matter and prog rock isn’t defined as a genre because of its thematycal/lyrical approach, although some groups have peculiar styles that lately influenced many other prog or pseudo-prog groups. But even if lyrics should be considered as an integral part of the progginess / prog relatedness of ABBA, their classic output sure was more serious, well constructed and deep than the medium prog rock group. We have in “Fernando” a ballad that deals with a serious and complex theme: the Mexican wars of independence. But the universally recognized merit of all ABBA’s lyrics are the ones dealin’ with the pains of growing old, specially in love affairs. The tragic end of Bjorn and Agnetha’s wedding lead the songwriters to talk about this subject very deeply, specially in their last three albums. Maybe “The winner takes it all” and “One of us” are the best examples of sheer brilliancy of Anderson/Ulvaeus composition team, sometimes akin to Ingmar Bergman’s skepticism an d melancholy. I can’t hear the first one without remembering “The seventh seal” and the contrast between the innocent happiness of the artists’ couple in the end of the movie and the tragic dance of the dead on the hills. What leads me to point…

4)      Abba’s composition team: Benny Anderson and Bjorn Ulvaeus. These guys are geniouses. Their music is rich, full of meanings, and still pop! They made use of unusual instruments (sitar in “I have a dream”, e.g.), complex layers of sound over basic drum patterns, melodies almost contrapunctual, vocal polyphony, operatic voices, revolutionary synth use… Really, anyone without prejudice can see the profound dialogue between ABBA music and the revolution in musical composition that the late sixties brought to pop music, specially prog rock.

5)      “The girl with the golden hair”. This mini-opera (that preceded the future collaborations of Anderson-Ulvaeus with composers such as Tim Rice) was released in The Album, the second after the breakthrough album Arrival for ABBA in the USA and the rest of the world (Europe was still conquered). This  piece is composed by three movements, and it seems to me related (in its prog-related context) to ELO’s Concerto for a rainy day. Probably the non-initiated have heard only about Thank you for the music, the first movement of this piece. It was played alive with a theatrical sketch, what just relates it to the pretensions of the progrockers of the time.

6)      Agnetha and Frida. They both were beautiful, hot, teasing us with their lovely expressions and could still singlike angels! Any music site that wants to be recognized by their knowledge of 70’s music must put ABBA on it, it doesn’t matter what specific style we’re talking about: punk, hard rock, heavy metal, folk rock, disco, soul, funk, pop, prog rock.. ABBA had it all. ABBA was for the seventies what the Beatles were for the sixties. We can understand the seventies without never hear anything about VDGG, the whole Italian prog scene and even some of the giants, with the exception of Pink Floyd and – maybe – Yes (more for Wakeman than for Yes itself). But we cannot understand all the luxury, sublimeness and glorious years for the music that the seventies were without knowing ABBA. Even the crappiest form of music made in that time – disco – were elevated to an almost ethereal state of art by them (Gimme Gimme Gimme – pay their royalties Madonna -, Lay all your love on me).

 

I finished this long request by quoting other motifs that justify – better saying, demand – ABBA’s presence in Prog Archives. Here they come, in no particular order:

 

Miles Davis

Iron Maiden

The Who

Styx

Black Sabbath

Led Zeppelin

Blue Öyster Cult

Kate Bush

Rainbow

Budgie

Metallica

 

My next chapter:

 

Why AC/DC should be added to PA in prog related (hard boggie minimalistic riffer-prog)

Bach, Ma, Bros, Déia, Dante.
Back to Top
Henry Plainview View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2009 at 20:25
Hahaha, this thread is going to be awesome.
 
Smithers, release the hounds Ivan! The twin blue fonts: but one is dark, and one is light. Who will prevail in the infinite struggle of the ying and yang?
if you own a sodastream i hate you
Back to Top
jammun View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2009 at 20:33

S.O.S.

Back to Top
moreitsythanyou View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: April 23 2006
Location: NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 11682
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2009 at 20:52
<font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR]

Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32530
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2009 at 20:52
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Hahaha, this thread is going to be awesome.
 
Smithers, release the hounds Ivan! The twin blue fonts: but one is dark, and one is light. Who will prevail in the infinite struggle of the ying and yang?


Post of the month.

And I cower in fear of the Ivan.
Back to Top
Padraic View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2009 at 21:03
Mamma mia!
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65289
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2009 at 21:21
don't know about ABBA, but the ELP/ABBA cover band BABA definitely should be


Back to Top
jammun View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2009 at 21:28
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

don't know about ABBA, but the ELP/ABBA cover band BABA definitely should be


 
That would be The Who/Abba cover band, i.e., Baba O' Abba'.
 
And we could always throw Beefheart into the mix which would be Abba Zabba Baba Abba.
Back to Top
Vompatti View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 67407
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2009 at 21:29
Yeah, they should be added ASAP!
Back to Top
Peter View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2009 at 23:42
Agnetha and Frida? Confused
 
Shocked Was that who ol'  Philbert was singing about on ABBACRABS?
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
Back to Top
Plankowner View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 09 2008
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 4006
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2009 at 00:23
Post.
Back to Top
b_olariu View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: March 02 2007
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 5533
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2009 at 05:08
WhatConfusedConfused Abba on prog archives, give me a break. In stead looking for real prog bands this dude moodyxandi explaining his opinion about prog relatd music. Ok after all is his opinion, but not here about Abba. Really this site turns to be some joke of real prog music
Back to Top
moodyxadi View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 01 2005
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 417
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2009 at 05:14
Thanx for your laughs and support. And although this post is partly a joke I simply tried to do a mental exercise about where the far inclusive boundaries of the so-called "prog related" concept (a good Idea at first) can lead us. This site is awesome, fantastic and the work of its members almost impeccable. But it's obvious that a lot of people feel "guilty" for likin' non-prog music and tried to justify their "sins" making weird connections. ABBA's inclusion is th e logical step that someday will happen here.

I believe that anyone can exclude the non-prog grops added here. A solution would be just to change the name of he site from ProgArchives to RockArchives. Then the debateswould be about the rockiness of bands, what is something more light and difficult to trace than the progginess (at least to my knowledge).
Bach, Ma, Bros, Déia, Dante.
Back to Top
Slartibartfast View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam

Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2009 at 05:19
We simply can't take a chance on that.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Back to Top
Vompatti View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 67407
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2009 at 06:22
The best solution would be to change the name of the site from ProgArchives to Archives and include everything. Even things that are everything-related.

Edited by Vompatti - January 16 2009 at 06:22
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2009 at 07:01
Originally posted by moodyxadi moodyxadi wrote:

Thanx for your laughs and support. And although this post is partly a joke I simply tried to do a mental exercise about where the far inclusive boundaries of the so-called "prog related" concept (a good Idea at first) can lead us. This site is awesome, fantastic and the work of its members almost impeccable. But it's obvious that a lot of people feel "guilty" for likin' non-prog music and tried to justify their "sins" making weird connections. ABBA's inclusion is th e logical step that someday will happen here.

I believe that anyone can exclude the non-prog grops added here. A solution would be just to change the name of he site from ProgArchives to RockArchives. Then the debateswould be about the rockiness of bands, what is something more light and difficult to trace than the progginess (at least to my knowledge).
While I agree that it is a simple mental exercise to produce a justification for including practically any artist into the archive under the pretext of being Prog Related, so by the reverse process any one can "pick-holes" in the reasoning behind the addition of those bands already included. That does not negate the addition of those bands or any the future additions. We try to be selective and only include artists that have made a significant impact on the World of Prog, or who have been noticeably influenced by it, or who have a direct connection to it, but we cannot please everyone.
 
Everything is subjective since music is an art not a science, if it were objective it would be simple, however the inclusions are not on a whim or a fancy, but are made after serious discussion and for and against reasonings and justifications. Of course there will be many people who disagree with each addition under Prog Related and those that wholeheartedly support it; I'm sure most people can find one or two additions they disagree with; there are very few would approve of every band, a few that have wholesale objections to the entire category and a few who couldn't give a monkey's either way - that is the nature of debate.
 
Changing the name of the Archive would not (necessarily) change additions policy, it is just a name - it could be called the Purple Passions and Streaming Consciousness Archives for all that matters - Prog Related is a side issue of little importance in the scheme of things, people could expend their energies on the more over-looked subgenres and the list of unreviewed albums than endlessly debating the addition of high-profile artists.
 
The assertion that PR inclusions are 'guilty pleasure' additions is unfounded, unjustified and, IMO, unfair.
 
What?
Back to Top
Ricochet View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2009 at 07:03
I'm tired of "let's add bands 99% of the world never considered prog rock", "let's add the idols that marked out life" or "let's nitpick for progressive elements in everything" discussions.

Since you're initial statement was quite elaborate, Moody, just go ahead and officially suggest ABBA to the Prog-Related Team (the Admins), taking full responsability of the addition. That way, you'll get a quick and direct answer regarding how prog is ABBA, and more importantly what's the status and nature of the Prog-Related category.


Edited by Ricochet - January 16 2009 at 07:03
Back to Top
Raff View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2009 at 07:17
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

The assertion that PR inclusions are 'guilty pleasure' additions is unfounded, unjustified and, IMO, unfair.
 


Thanks to Dean for expressing my same sentiments in a much clearer, logical and rational way. I didn't want to come across as a grumpy killjoy, but I have to say I resent any allegations that the addition of PR bands is the product of feelings of guilt. I don't worship prog as a religion, and certainly don't feel guilty if I want to listen to, say, Duran Duran or Frankie Goes to Hollywood - nor do I wish for them to be included because I like some of their music. None of the Prog-Related bands I was responsible for adding were added without careful consideration of their actual relation with prog - even if, of course, you're all free to believe otherwise, if that makes you happy.
Back to Top
Slartibartfast View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam

Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2009 at 14:09
Well, prog related bands may not be prog, but they at least have to be proggy on the fringe.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Back to Top
Mikerinos View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Planet Gong
Status: Offline
Points: 8890
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2009 at 15:37
Dancing Queen makes Zeuhl look like bubblegum pop. Thumbs Up
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.137 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.