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Padraic 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
 Posted: January 14 2009 at 20:55 |
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If Zappa is so fundamental to RIO/Avant prog, does anyone find it curious that two of the team members own precisely zero albums by him?
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 20:56 |
Also: The 2004 Rolling Stone Album Guide writes: "Frank Zappa dabbled in virtually all kinds of music—and, whether guised as a satirical rocker, jazz-rock fusionist, guitar virtuoso, electronics wizard, or orchestral innovator, his eccentric genius was undeniable".[194] Even though his work found inspiration from many different genres, Zappa was seen establishing a coherent and personal expression. In 1971, biographer David Walley noted that "The whole structure of his music is unified, not neatly divided by dates or time sequences and it is all building into a composite".[195] On commenting on Zappa's music, politics and philosophy, Barry Miles noted in 2004 that they cannot be separated: "It was all one; all part of his 'conceptual continuity'". |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 20:58 |
I have some on my PC and someone did a CD-R for me of one his albums. Never listened to them though. |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 20:59 |
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As for Beefheart, I don't know his output at all but I think he's a little more avant-orientated than Zappa was.
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 21:01 |
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Ohh, and he was never a guitar virtuoso either
But then again, that is just the Rolling Stone Album Guide which doesn't mean much Seriously though, the rest of that excerpt is not bad I guess. |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 21:02 |
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I'm coming around to the view that he should be moved, but I don't think it's going to happen.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 21:02 |
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Rock artists like Alice Cooper,[213] Black Sabbath,[214] Fee Waybill of The Tubes[215] and Billy Bob Thornton[216] cite Zappa's influence, as do progressive rock artists like Henry Cow,[217] Trey Anastasio of Phish,[212] and John Frusciante.
Hahahahaha, John Frusciante a prog artist? Hahahahahahaha. Nice to see Henry Cow get a mention though. |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 21:03 |
No it won't happen. But it should. Those Eclectic folk are stubborn.  Taal are avant-prog and we should have them. We should also have 4/3 de Trio back as well. |
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 21:06 |
He definitely should be moved, no question. |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 21:06 |
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What about Beefheart?
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 21:06 |
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Google "frank zappa avant".
Near the top on the second page is a link to ourselves (PA) asking if Zappa should be in Eclectic.  |
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 21:09 |
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Well, I own Freak Out! which is of course, a Mothers Of Invention album and to me, it sounds like a blend of rock and roll, doo-wop, experimental rock and some bluesy stuff going on.
The ONLY song off that album I think that is an Avant Garde track, is The Return Of The Song Of Monster Magnet. That is one song out of a whole 15 songs from the debut Mothers of Invention album that is Avant. That hardly makes for an Avant Garde album at all. Edited by HughesJB4 - January 14 2009 at 21:10 |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 21:09 |
 Nice. Actually, the 6th entry for me is a post by Cacho asking if he's RIO or Avant-prog. Originally posted by cacho. Sorry for changing subject T, but what is Zappa? Avant or RIO? Always had a doubt about it. Cacho, to answer your question. He's neither.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 21:10 |
I haven't really heard him either. Don't know what to say. |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 21:11 |
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The Zappa I know (mostly via other artists covering his music):
Willie the Pimp Pygmy Twylyte My Guitar Killed Your Momma King Kong Eat that Klezmer The only one I've heard by Zappa himself is Pygmy Twylyte. I've heard other Zappa tunes by Zappa himself but cannot remember what they were. However, they were mostly songs by him with his comedy vocals. I think of Zappa mostly for his silly vocals. |
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 21:11 |
I've only heard about 2 Beefheart songs at most, but from what I hear anyway, he was closer to Avant than Zappa is anyway. |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 21:12 |
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Zappa did play on some Beefheart albums though.
Not that that really helps the argument. |
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 21:12 |
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I also own We're Only In It For the Money.
Basically no avant to be seen there IMO, it's just some bizarre, hilarious, experimental thing. |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 21:13 |
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I do like stuff like King Kong.
But that was fusion. Well, the version by The Wrong Object is anyhow. |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: January 14 2009 at 21:15 |
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The thing that bugs me the most is the top albums displayed on the RIO/Avant main page.
The first thing you see is Hot Rats. When I was first getting into RIO, I was fooled by this - thinking "Wow, guess I should start compiling some Zappa". But they have "Peaches En Regalia" as a sample on his page, and it's a good track but not RIO in any way. Having albums like that right up front when newcomers are trying to learn about RIO and Avant-prog is a really bad thing, IMO. |
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The Shred Room II (with extra youth)
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HughesJB4 wrote: