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NotAProghead 
Special Collaborator 
Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7861 |
 Posted: January 07 2009 at 22:42 |
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IMO it's too much. I'm not a Crimson fan, but the band is so important. I think it's better to place the information on KC and Fripp pages, something like this, with big red letters: Sorry, thanks to Mr. Fripp and his management, no mp3-s and videos are available!!! |
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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mrcozdude
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: July 25 2007 Location: Devon,UK. Status: Offline Points: 2078 |
Posted: January 08 2009 at 02:05 |
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This perhaps maybe what it was like for Metallica fans with napster.I expect there will be a difference in album sales though the margin may not be that big.I found it quite difficult to investigate Crimson's music in the first place,i was just content on pursuing from the great but little i heard.
With websites like Youtube & Last.fm not previewing music,theres a very slim chance new generations are going to find this music & KC will remain a cult band.Myspace,youtube and Last.fm are extremely crucial marketing areas for the digital age.
I'm gonna start a KC street team and promote them that way,there's a good chance i'll be assassinated in my attempt.
I'm not to overally bothered by this,just a little dissapointed.
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004 Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
Posted: January 08 2009 at 12:49 |
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There`s some Crimson videos starting to resurface on youtube. I guess we should inform Bob that his spies are not doing their jobs.
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20030 |
Posted: January 08 2009 at 13:03 |
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I can understand that, but is a few tracks available for streaming on PA going to harm his earnings, or is it more likely to lead to more people purchasing KC albums? Personally I think making a few tracks available on the Internet is the best way to get your music heard. |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: January 08 2009 at 14:47 |
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What pisses me is that there are
We must promote Nª 1 and Nª 2 bands, support Nª 3 bands and reject the fourth group (If there is another jerk as stone face). Honestly, important or not, I would leave only the bio without Photo, eliminate the link to his site as cover albums, of course delete the links that send to places where his albums are sold and just leave a place for reviews without any form of advertising, not even the photos of the albums. Iván. Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 08 2009 at 15:03 |
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Posted: January 08 2009 at 14:51 |
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Right! agree with you Ivan  Edited by Alberto Muñoz - January 08 2009 at 14:59 |
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NotAProghead
Special Collaborator
Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7861 |
Posted: January 08 2009 at 15:13 |
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Ivan, we may like it or not, but it's authors' right to allow or forbid free access to their works. In case of KC the absence of samples (videos) is not a problem for PA visitors, most band's albums are not rare at all. And, if PA tends to be the best prog resource, it will be incomplete without KC.
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004 Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
Posted: January 08 2009 at 15:24 |
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Order. Order in this Court of the Crimson King. Whoa the horsies! Remember this is Fripp we`re talking about. He is known to have done many impulsive things from time to time. He contradicts himself all the time and you never know what the guy is going to do or say next. I`m probably just as ticked about all this as the next guy, but let`s not overeact. I was at a Crimson concert once and Fripp saw someone pull out a camera and threatened to end the show if he saw it again. Needless to say the camera disappeared.
Why doesn`t someone in the corridors of power here at PA find out who this matter should be directed toward and communicate in a civilized way with that party politely stating our case. Maybe get a bunch of collabs to attach their names to this communication. I think this is a reasonable proposition. No? Comments? |
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NotAProghead
Special Collaborator
Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7861 |
Posted: January 08 2009 at 15:54 |
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^ IMO good proposition.
Let's not forget that many things are strongly connected. Everyone knows Mr. Fripp's "bad nature". But who knows, be his nature better, could he create his great music? I don't know.
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: January 08 2009 at 15:54 |
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That's the problem, Mr Fripp is used to this behaviour because people treat him as a Prima Donna, he needs to know that the fans who buy his albums after 30+ years are the ones who provide him of the status he enjoys.
I believe it's time to say "No more Mr Fripp" and support the bands who want to be supported, the bands that consider fans something more than bodies with a wallett who will buy the albums because he's a "genius".
As an example the I contacted Romanian band Yesterdays via his keyboardist Zsolt Enyedi in order to add themm, he not onlyn sent me a CD autographed by all the members of the band (Very nice detail) but he was so humble that set me like 10 albums if his favorite musicians from Romania, that's hopw a real intelligent and enice person acts, instead of promoting his band, he helped to promote unknown bands from his country.
The real genius is humble enough to know why he is in the place he is, because people keep him there.
People talk about the ego of Rick Wakeman or Roger Waters, but I talked with the first one and seen how carefully the second one treats the audience, they are gentlemen with huge egos, but musicians who respect their fans.
Some of us love some King Crimson music, others love all their stuff, but lets be real, King Crionmson is a band from the past, a band that would be forgotten if sites like Prog Archives didn't kept them alive.
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 08 2009 at 16:01 |
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: October 22 2005 Location: elsewhere Status: Offline Points: 67407 |
Posted: January 08 2009 at 16:45 |
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As far as prog bands go I'm sure that King Crimson is one of the least likely to be forgotten. And if they ever are forgotten, I can't imagine it having anything to do with the fact that people can't listen to their songs online. They have such a huge reputation (and they deserve it) that anyone who's interested in prog can't avoid coming across them some way or another. The people who are likely to buy their albums will most likely buy them anyway, even if they'd have to risk their money for something they haven't had the chance to listen to beforehand. I think it's outrageous to assume that it's the artist's responsibility to give out some of his stuff for free just so that we can "try it before we buy it". |
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004 Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
Posted: January 09 2009 at 11:00 |
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Ivan. Ivan my son. Count from 100 backwards slowly. Imagine pastoral scenes of the English countryside. I understand how you feel. As I mentioned I`m just as riled as the next guy about this.
Fripp is indeed an unusual creature but I don`t think he acts this way in order to be treated like you say, a " Prima Donna". It`s part of his nature and , as I said he can change his mind like the wind and has the tendancy to contradict himself. We don`t even know for sure why or how this decision was made. It certainly wasn`t Progarchives alone which perpetuated this action by King Crimson`s legal representatives. As Tony R mentioned earlier anything King Crimson has also even been wiped from the last FM. I have a sneaking suspicion that it was something somebody within the KC organisation saw which broke the proverbial camel`s back. I`m also suprised that Syd Smith hasn`t come forth with anything on this. I still propose a formal letter endorsed by as many collabs as possible to be sent to the appropriate representatives of KC explaining our position. At least I believe we here at PA are entitled to an explanation even if such a letter is to no avail. I volounteer my time to sit down and compose such a letter and post it for all to see and approve prior to sending it off to Mr. Fripp`s people. I`ll also make sur that it reaches the proper representative so that it goes through the right channels on their end. Ivan. Hold off for a while. Please.  |
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crimhead
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: October 10 2006 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 19236 |
Posted: January 09 2009 at 13:45 |
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If you wish to hear any King Crimson....allmusic.com has samples off about 70% of Crimson's library on their site. It appears that the legal team hasn't informed them or they are paying to have the samples on their site.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: January 09 2009 at 14:27 |
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No Crimhead, in my case I have all the King Crimson I need, all the albums paid in a store, that's not the point, one song in stream is not piracy, and I wonder why we must understand Mr Fripp's reations.
The general excuse is that he's like this.....nobody has the right to behave in such manner.
Iván
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004 Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
Posted: January 09 2009 at 15:25 |
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You`re taking this way too personally it seems. I`m going to draft an initial letter post it and see what people think. It seems to me that nobody here at PA even questioned this action, but merely complied ( which was the wise thing to do). I can name a few other artists who are off their trolleys. If they weren`t off their trolleys in some way they wouldn`t be artists. Should see how Gary Larson who drew The Far Side protects his work. . The worst that can come out of this is a straight answer from the King Crimson people. I`ll write the letter and find out who to direct it to over the weekend then post it and see if we want to send it off. Fair enough?
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:16 |
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Some people deal with copyright issues in very odd ways. If you think Fripp is bad, I'll tell you what happened to me and another bunch of people who wrote essays on Tolkien to be published in a book which came out in the fall of last year. In order to use VERY SHORT quotations from Tolkien's work in our essays, we were forced to pay £ 35 per head to HarperCollins (Tolkien's publisher in the UK), because they don't recognise 'fair use', and the publisher of our book wanted to have permission for all quotations used. As in the case of Fripp's lawyers, this means being unable to distinguish between reliable sources (in our case, an academic publisher) and dodgy ones
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:38 |
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If you took the time to read through Fripp's diary: http://www.dgmlive.com/search_diaries.htm?search=SEARCH+DIARIES&diarist=3&Word_Keyword=copyright&Day=Day&Month=Month&Year=Year&search=SEARCH+DIARIES You would find that it is indeed Mr Fripp himself that is jealously guarding his copyright. There's no hidden agent. Edited by Tony R - January 09 2009 at 16:38 |
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: October 21 2007 Location: n/a Status: Offline Points: 8052 |
Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:39 |
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Frankly, Fripp has no obligation to simply allow what is essentially unauthorised broadcasting. That the other bands you mentioned choose to, great!, but that doesn't change the fact that the artists/record labels have their work, and can choose not to let people broadcast it freely. To be honest, this move comes across as perfectly reasonable to me. Your suggested response is simply berkishness in reply to some perceived insult (which was, in my opinion, 100% reasonable anyway). And, coincidentally, it'd be crippling PA's reliability and value for no reason. Do the fans really have any reasonable grounds to expect to be allowed to keep up a few tracks? Personally, I don't think so. |
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:40 |
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I basically agree with the above text. Note I have removed the name-calling bit....  |
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Angelo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:48 |
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Fripp's not doing very much these days - you revived a 9 month old thread (and after a quick scan of the responses - you were quite succesful at it as well....) Edited by Angelo - January 09 2009 at 16:51 |
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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King Crimson videos and MP3s no longer allowed !
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Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: