Getting estranged from prog

It's not that I am getting estranged from prog, it is getting that I am becoming estranged from a lot of rock music. Not because the music is getting any worse but solely because of the really naff drumming that seems to be dominating things. The industry seems, to my hearing, to be dominated by talentless drummers who only seem capable of tapping out a naff beat on the snare drum which spoils what is really some good music. Also the overuse of high hat cymbals is severely degrading my enjoyment of the music.

I experienced this too, and solved it by simply not listening to prog for about a year and a half. Then I started revisiting some old favourites, and started looking for old bands I hadn't yet heard. That kind of solved it for me.

Try to be open to other genres, "regular" music or whatever. It can seem impossible and uninteresting, but it could be worth a try if you feel stuck.

Alberto Muñoz wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: I read my posts again and I realized that I really didn't answer the original question of the thread but specific points of Friede's post. So here's my answer: I'm not feeling estranged from prog at all ... not classic prog, and certainly not modern prog. So far I've proven to be largely immune to what seems to happen to most people as they age: they get less and less flexible. I'm trying to counteract that and instead get more flexible with each new album that I listen to ... which doesn't mean that I like each and every style of music, but I'm trying to give them all a fair chance.   I agree with you in most, in my teens i was more intolerant than today, now i'm more open and flexible to hear new music

I also was a bit less flexible in my teens - I would mostly listen to Metal and Hard Rock. But I soon got into Zappa and Dream Theater, and that opened me up to all kinds of styles. Too bad that I can't remember the proper sequence of my album purchases - it would show how my taste developed over time. <shameless plug>too bad I didn't have Progfreak.com back then!</shameless plug>

Mr ProgFreak wrote: I read my posts again and I realized that I really didn't answer the original question of the thread but specific points of Friede's post. So here's my answer: I'm not feeling estranged from prog at all ... not classic prog, and certainly not modern prog. So far I've proven to be largely immune to what seems to happen to most people as they age: they get less and less flexible. I'm trying to counteract that and instead get more flexible with each new album that I listen to ... which doesn't mean that I like each and every style of music, but I'm trying to give them all a fair chance.

BaldFriede wrote: I don't know why, but I am getting more and more estranged from prog. It still has a place in my heart, but the development the music is taking in this genre makes me shy away from it. Or perhaps it is my own development, who knows? .In any case, newer  artists in prog seem to have different opinions about what prog actually is than I. The few exceptions can be counted on the fingers of one hand. There are some old heroes who keep carrying the flag, but some of them have left the path of what is acceptable for me. And they are of course not getting any younger, which means there number becomes fewer with each year. Artists like The Red Masque, who in my opinion are by far the best of what cropped up in the last ten years, are few. (They get, by the way, far too little attention in here, in my honest opinion. The archives should hail them like some of the big bands of the 70s, and I mean it). I find myself listening to classical music and jazz mostly these days. That is, I still listen to prog, but I am really missing new artists that keep the ball rolling. People have suggested some new artists to me, but they didn't really excite me. As I said, it may be just me (though Jean says she feels quite similar). There just is no real daring anymore, except from some of the old heroes. Modern production adds to my discomfort with prog; it no longer sounds organic, it sounds artificial. Every single instrument is so clearly seperated from the other - that's not the way it sounds when you hear music being played live. Here the instruments blend into each other, making the whole thing sound organic. This is probably one of the reasons why I prefer live recordings to studio ones (especially modern studio recordings). Is it just me, or is anyone else feeling like this?

Yep, sounds pretty familiar territory. With regards the modern production you speak of, I do agree that many new recordings sound anodyne or sterile to my ears. I think this might just boil down to the missing inherent warmth of yesterday's analogue gear which is recognized as an almost imperceptible and very subtle distortion that we humans find musically satisfying i.e the very lack of definition on much of 70's prog gives it an organic weight that we sense in the pit of our stomachs. This feeling is absent , for me at any rate, in purely digital recordings. It is no accident that in the age of Pro Tools etc, the most sought after mastering software are digital plugins that attempt to replicate the imperfections and colourisation of the old analogue gear. Engineers the world over, are spending thousands of dollars trying to 'degrade' their squeaky clean digital recordings to make them as appealing as those of yesteryear.

Of the modern prog bands touted in these very forums, I can only say that Porcupine Tree re In Absentia filled me with the same excitement as the original 70's giants, but after said milestone album PT appear to have ventured into a more metallic oriented direction. (Which ain't really my bag)

Scandinavia might just be the location where the 'keepers of the flame' might emanate from, given the fertile prog activity in that part of the world lately. However, although I do think that the likes of Flower Kings, Opeth, Wobbler, Black Bonzo etc are very talented imitators, their efforts to date can hardly qualify as innovative.

(But they're young - in prog terms - so don't give up hope)

As for what the next genuine development will be, who knows ? but I suspect that what we subsequently come to recognise as the next prog rock of the noughties, will sound neither like YES, ELP or even prog metal but a hybrid of electronic sounds wedded to developments in contemporary classical and jazz.

For what it's worth

BTW: I just finished some modifications at PF (you can now select more than one tag on the charts page) and the following list might contain some interesting albums for you, Friede:

http://progfreak.com/home/charts.xhtml?tags=avant_garde,experimental&g=rock&arpu=1

I don't get too concerned with what's going on with modern prog, because to be honest I just seek out what's good and I don't really care when it was made.  But I think I know what you're going through, especially if you've listened to prog for years and years, you feel like everything's been done, you've heard everything you care to hear, and you want something new.  Expanding to classical/jazz is something I'm just embarking on as well, although prog will continue to dominate my listening sessions for years, I expect.

Kestrel wrote: I often feel the same way when it comes to modern prog. People here seem to be able to find all sorts of new stuff, but I find them to be boring and sterile, much like you do. A personal problem of mine is the dominance of distorted guitar/guitar solos everywhere (the new Tangent a perfect example) which means I can't like most modern prog.  However there are a few bands I find I can enjoy. Check these guys out if you haven't already: http://www.last.fm/music/Birds+and+Buildings/Bantam+to+Behemoth Also what I have been trying to do is checking out other scenes outside of the major symphonic label. I don't know how familiar you are with the RIO/Avant Prog scene, but there are some cool recent bands from there. Ahvak sounds to be pretty unique to me, and Rational Diet, a band that placed on avestin's top list this year which prompted me to check the out, are also pretty cool. http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=199629767

Awesome recommendations! 

I often feel the same way when it comes to modern prog. People here seem to be able to find all sorts of new stuff, but I find them to be boring and sterile, much like you do. A personal problem of mine is the dominance of distorted guitar/guitar solos everywhere (the new Tangent a perfect example) which means I can't like most modern prog. 

However there are a few bands I find I can enjoy. Check these guys out if you haven't already: http://www.last.fm/music/Birds+and+Buildings/Bantam+to+Behemoth

Also what I have been trying to do is checking out other scenes outside of the major symphonic label. I don't know how familiar you are with the RIO/Avant Prog scene, but there are some cool recent bands from there. Ahvak sounds to be pretty unique to me, and Rational Diet, a band that placed on avestin's top list this year which prompted me to check the out, are also pretty cool. http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=199629767

I apologize if you're already familiar with these bands. I know what you're feeling though and it's definitely frustrating. These recent years I am sometimes barely be able to pick out a top 3 prog albums whereas back in the 1970s I can rattle off a large list of them. I wouldn't say now is bad as it was in the 90s though... Haha.

Edited by Kestrel - January 06 2009 at 09:59

I'm estranged too, I guess. Even as a big fan of Neo-Prog, I recognize without very, good songs, it can become a big wasteland. I have to say I'm becoming a big electronica fan of many sorts, but generally the less danceable kind minus trance and trip-hop, which I like. Similarly, newer indie bands are coming to my attention, but thankfully I don't think I can ever be a hipster. Like you, I love lots of 70s prog, and I recognize the raw, unprocessed sound is amazing, and it's a shame it's gone in most circles. I'm listening to the recent Grayceon album now, though, and I do think it's a great recent not-produced-to-death prog album.