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Logan 
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Points: 35951
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 Posted: November 30 2008 at 20:55 |
 crimson87 wrote:
Man , the only way to solve this issue about Hendrix is to ask the greats in prog like Fripp , Howe , Hackett or Gilmour. If they say how Hendrix influenced them then is more than clear that he is prog.
Vote The Rolling Stones for Prog Related!!!! |
Or for Proto Prog for this: 
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65268
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Posted: November 30 2008 at 20:57 |
anoah wrote:
Hello everyone,
I'm fairly new here--young too, so I doubt this post will really be
noticed, BUT...
I know various artists (Metallica, Radiohead, etc.) have
stirred up a bit of controversy here, and I appreciate all the people who are
making valid points on both sides, but why does this need to turn into attacks,
things that have nothing to do with music at all. We do not need to accuse
people of being liars or being "new" and inexperienced. This is a music
community, and we are supposed to come together to share our musical tastes, to
discuss and disagree on music styles and techniques, to recommend music that is
important to us.
I love Jimi Hendrix! He's an amazing guitarist and
influenced countless musicians. But it doesn't matter to me whether he gets into
the archives or not. Him being a member of the archives doesn't increase his
greatness. He was never renowned as the greatest prog guitarist of the last
century. He's just an amazing musician. His spot in the archives is an
interesting topic, and as I said, it's nice that people are making arguments for
why he should and shouldn't be a member of the archives, but frankly, does it
even matter?
Should we really let another musician's spot in the
archives get between fellow prog-lovers? We are a special community. There are
very few places where music listeners who enjoy a very lovely and unique style
of music can come together to share their love of the music. This is an amazing
place.
-Noah
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it is an amazing place, Noah, thanks for reminding us of that.. many
here have strong feelings due to years of listening behind them and
those feelings come out with passion sometimes ..for those that are
the caretakers here, it matters because decisions have to be made, and
artists cannot then be removed so it's important to be sure and to have
all arguments on the table hope you enjoy your time here
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: November 30 2008 at 21:15 |
The T wrote:
T...can you tell me when I said this?????? Please do it...If you can. .
YOU ARE PLACING WORDS IN MY MOUTH and trying to fix your mistake with a lot of fforced arguments. Ok. You didn't say that. I can give you that Ivan. |
Please, put is as big as your initial post. That would had been enough T to avoid all this disgusting problems, quote what I say, because I'm the kind odf person that always says my truth loud and clear.
The T wrote:
No matter how many explanations you give, no matter how many times you say Mike made that thread to boost his site, you and all the fotrum know that Mike started the thread to suport Metallica. Now YOU are putting words (or better, intentions) on Mike's actions. Why can you do this and I can't? Do you know for a FACT that he created that thread to support Metallica? |
Please T, don't pretend to be that naive.
- There's a debate about metallica that already has 10 pages
- Mike starts another one PRECISELY IN THAT MOMENT SUPPORTING METALLICA'S PROGRSIVENESS
- And you say it's not to suport Metallica...PLEASE T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please T, it's yellow, has feathers, says quack, it's a duck.
The T wrote:
But Metallica is here, nobody can do a thing, even if we start 100 threads asking to remove Metallica, things won't change, so stop all this, I said something that i supported with quotes and facts, you made a scandal ansd placed words in my mouth I never said. If I "made a scandal" it's because I'm DAMN TIRED of people mentioning an addition that was approved by THE SITE OWNER. And that went through a LOT of discussion before ever happening. |
Exactly what I'm saying MAKING A FINAL DECISION ABOUT A BAND IS FUTILE, BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL INSIST EVEN IN M@X , THE ADM AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE (METALLICA LOST OF THE POLLS) DISAGREE.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 30 2008 at 21:39
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ziggystardust360
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 22 2008
Location: Orlando
Status: Offline
Points: 80
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Posted: November 30 2008 at 21:30 |
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I don't think Hendrix belongs in the archives.
Because if we added Hendrix we'd have to add bands like Funkadelic,Sly Stone,Grateful Dead.
They all had the same system going on all had the same styles,now think about this what if all these bands were added because all have the same qualities Hendrix's music had.
Now doesn't that just sound ridiculous.
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''I always had the repulsive need to be something other than human''-David Bowie
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65268
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Posted: November 30 2008 at 21:35 |
ziggystardust360 wrote:
I don't think Hendrix belongs in the archives.
Because if we added Hendrix we'd have to add bands like Funkadelic,Sly Stone,Grateful Dead.
They all had the same system going on all had the same styles,now think about this what if all these bands were added because all have the same qualities Hendrix's music had.
Now doesn't that just sound ridiculous.
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luckily it doesn't work that way and we wouldn't have to add any artist based on any other, which is part of the argument against Jimi's inclusion; he either was influential on progrock or he wasn't, and he couldn't really be ProgRelated because he died in 1970
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: December 01 2008 at 01:11 |
ziggystardust360 wrote:
I don't think Hendrix belongs in the archives.
Because if we added Hendrix we'd have to add bands like Funkadelic,Sly Stone,Grateful Dead.
They all had the same system going on all had the same styles,now think about this what if all these bands were added because all have the same qualities Hendrix's music had.
Now doesn't that just sound ridiculous.
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Let's refrain from "If X band , why not Y? please  "They all had the same system going on all had the same styles,now think
about this what if all these bands were added because all have the same
qualities Hendrix's music had" Substantiate this please. Doesn't wash with me.
Edited by HughesJB4 - December 01 2008 at 01:13
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 13 2006
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Points: 4252
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Posted: December 01 2008 at 01:17 |
not Prog but one of the most influential progressive artists of all time, he deserves a place here at least in Space Rock or Proto-prog - the problem here is he is basically a Blues player, something which PA are reluctant to handle as this would "open too many other floodgates" (Groundhogs, Free et al...) never mind the funk thing (though Jazz Fusion gets away with it as its so popular among the PA cognoscenti... )
Edited by mystic fred - December 01 2008 at 01:21
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 Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: December 01 2008 at 01:18 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
The T wrote:
T...can you tell me when I said this?????? Please do it...If you can. .
YOU ARE PLACING WORDS IN MY MOUTH and trying to fix your mistake with a lot of fforced arguments. Ok. You didn't say that. I can give you that Ivan. |
Please, put is as big as your initial post. That would had been enough T to avoid all this disgusting problems, quote what I say, because I'm the kind odf person that always says my truth loud and clear.
The T wrote:
No matter how many explanations you give, no matter how many times you say Mike made that thread to boost his site, you and all the fotrum know that Mike started the thread to suport Metallica. Now YOU are putting words (or better, intentions) on Mike's actions. Why can you do this and I can't? Do you know for a FACT that he created that thread to support Metallica? |
Please T, don't pretend to be that naive.
- There's a debate about metallica that already has 10 pages
- Mike starts another one PRECISELY IN THAT MOMENT SUPPORTING METALLICA'S PROGRSIVENESS
- And you say it's not to suport Metallica...PLEASE T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please T, it's yellow, has feathers, says quack, it's a duck.
What if you painted a duck red? Then you'd be wrong
The T wrote:
But Metallica is here, nobody can do a thing, even if we start 100 threads asking to remove Metallica, things won't change, so stop all this, I said something that i supported with quotes and facts, you made a scandal ansd placed words in my mouth I never said. If I "made a scandal" it's because I'm DAMN TIRED of people mentioning an addition that was approved by THE SITE OWNER. And that went through a LOT of discussion before ever happening. |
Exactly what I'm saying MAKING A FINAL DECISION ABOUT A BAND IS FUTILE, BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL INSIST EVEN IN M@X , THE ADM AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE (METALLICA LOST OF THE POLLS) DISAGREE.
Yes, but the people who were against Metallica's addition AND posted in the thread didn't provide good enough arguments/evidence to substantiate their posts.
Most arguments went as far as "no Metallica".
On the other hand, many of the pro Metallica posts by Cert for eg, had great evidence and arguments.
Iván
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So, about that Hendrix thing.....
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: December 01 2008 at 01:22 |
mystic fred wrote:
not Prog but one of the most influential progressive artists of all time, he deserves a place here at least in Space Rock or Proto-prog - the problem here is he is basically a Blues player, something which PA are reluctant to handle as this would "open too many other floodgates" (Groundhogs, Free et al...).
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Proto Prog, maybe........just maybe (although I still wouldn't agree with it, at least it would make a tiny teeny bit of sense). But as for adding Hendrix to a fully a full fledged prog genre (Space/Psychedelic) will certainly not happen without it becoming problematic in some way or another.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: December 01 2008 at 08:45 |
HughesJB4 wrote:
Please T, it's yellow, has feathers, says quack, it's a duck.
What if you painted a duck red? Then you'd be wrong
It's still a duck
[
Yes, but the people who were against Metallica's addition AND posted in the thread didn't provide good enough arguments/evidence to substantiate their posts.
Most arguments went as far as "no Metallica".
On the other hand, many of the pro Metallica posts by Cert for eg, had great evidence and arguments.
I don't believe so, but my policy is to shut my mouth after a band is added. Each one reads as they want to read.
Iván
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: December 01 2008 at 10:23 |
HughesJB4 wrote:
mystic fred wrote:
not Prog but one of the most influential progressive artists of all time, he deserves a place here at least in Space Rock or Proto-prog - the problem here is he is basically a Blues player, something which PA are reluctant to handle as this would "open too many other floodgates" (Groundhogs, Free et al...).
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Proto Prog, maybe........just maybe (although I still wouldn't agree with it, at least it would make a tiny teeny bit of sense).
But as for adding Hendrix to a fully a full fledged prog genre (Space/Psychedelic) will certainly not happen without it becoming problematic in some way or another.
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Proto Prog sounds fine for me... 
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: December 01 2008 at 10:27 |
Peter wrote:
THIS IS AN EVEN BIGGER FONT!!!  |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: December 01 2008 at 12:06 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
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Posted: December 01 2008 at 16:26 |
This is a Hendrix thread , but since the Metallica issue popped up. I think it was a fair inclussion , I just hope PA does not have that policy of adding a band and ALL their records but if we were that strict only King Crimson's whole cataloge will survive.
Plus , it will take legions of collaborators to start disscussing what's prog and what's not.
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The T
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: December 01 2008 at 19:38 |
My latest reactions in green for better understanding.
HughesJB4 wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
The T wrote:
T...can you tell me when I said this?????? Please do it...If you can. .
YOU ARE PLACING WORDS IN MY MOUTH and trying to fix your mistake with a lot of fforced arguments. Ok. You didn't say that. I can give you that Ivan. |
Please, put is as big as your initial post. That would had been enough T to avoid all this disgusting problems, quote what I say, because I'm the kind odf person that always says my truth loud and clear.
The T wrote:
No matter how many explanations you give, no matter how many times you say Mike made that thread to boost his site, you and all the fotrum know that Mike started the thread to suport Metallica. Now YOU are putting words (or better, intentions) on Mike's actions. Why can you do this and I can't? Do you know for a FACT that he created that thread to support Metallica? |
Please T, don't pretend to be that naive. Oh no. I don't. I do it purposefully. Because it's very easy to see truths where other people can't see them. You just have to say it loud.
- There's a debate about metallica that already has 10 pages True.
- Mike starts another one PRECISELY IN THAT MOMENT SUPPORTING METALLICA'S PROGRSIVENESS I still can't see your way into mike's brain here. You love evidence. You love quotes. Isn't this just "circumstancial evidence"? No judge will condemn Mike with evidence so circumstancial as this... It's your interpretation of Mike's actions.
- And you say it's not to suport Metallica...PLEASE T!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh my interpretation is:" this man - Mike - wants to promote his website and right now when Metallica is a hot topic it's the right time to create a statistic-based graph and poll in progfreak.com". I mean, it's what suits MY truth, even if it isn't. Say what you want, your view is the same.
Please T, it's yellow, has feathers, says quack, it's a duck. Here in Florida we have ducks everywhere. They're white, green, black.. .still haven't seen the yellow one...  ...
What if you painted a duck red? Then you'd be wrong I haven't seen the red one either. Actually, ducks' color-assortment is highly overrated...
The T wrote:
But Metallica is here, nobody can do a thing, even if we start 100 threads asking to remove Metallica, things won't change, so stop all this, I said something that i supported with quotes and facts, you made a scandal ansd placed words in my mouth I never said. If I "made a scandal" it's because I'm DAMN TIRED of people mentioning an addition that was approved by THE SITE OWNER. And that went through a LOT of discussion before ever happening. |
Exactly what I'm saying MAKING A FINAL DECISION ABOUT A BAND IS FUTILE, BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL INSIST EVEN IN M@X , THE ADM AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE (METALLICA LOST OF THE POLLS) DISAGREE. The validity of polls requires another thread. As some people have said, voting can be done even mechanically. The fact of the matter is, M@x turned his mind around. And therefore all the insistence actually was proven right.
Yes, but the people who were against Metallica's addition AND posted in the thread didn't provide good enough arguments/evidence to substantiate their posts. TrueMost arguments went as far as "no Metallica". A feww of them were even shorter... "NO". (in caps, though, for effect...)
On the other hand, many of the pro Metallica posts by Cert for eg, had great evidence and arguments. True.
Iván Teo
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So, about that Hendrix thing.....
You have to agree, discussing useless things is too entertaning to let it go...
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: December 01 2008 at 20:35 |
Just to finish this entertaining but fuutile argument that i believe had ended yesterday
The T wrote:
Please T, don't pretend to be that naive. Oh no. I don't. I do it purposefully. Because it's very easy to see truths where other people can't see them. You just have to say it loud.
- There's a debate about metallica that already has 10 pages True.
- Mike starts another one PRECISELY IN THAT MOMENT SUPPORTING METALLICA'S PROGRESIVENESS I still can't see your way into mike's brain here. You love evidence. You love quotes. Isn't this just "circumstancial evidence"? No judge will condemn Mike with evidence so circumstancial as this... It's your interpretation of Mike's actions.
- And you say it's not to suport Metallica...PLEASE T!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh my interpretation is:" this man - Mike - wants to promote his website and right now when Metallica is a hot topic it's the right time to create a statistic-based graph and poll in progfreak.com". I mean, it's what suits MY truth, even if it isn't. Say what you want, your view is the same.
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T, I won cases with less evidence than this, with Mike starting a thread
- In favor of a band he has tried to include for months
- In the precise moment when teh majority was against the inclusion
- With the arguments he required
Again I say it....Please!!!!!!!!!!
The T wrote:
Please T, it's yellow, has feathers, says quack, it's a duck. Here in Florida we have ducks everywhere. They're white, green, black.. .still haven't seen the yellow one... ... |
So..you've never seen a baby duck?
I won't reply to the Metallica arguments, because I don't say anything when the band is added.
Iván
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: December 01 2008 at 21:31 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
So..you've never seen a baby duck?
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Now here I definitely have no good arguments against that... 
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Posted: December 01 2008 at 21:43 |
^^^^^
Iván
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Easy Money
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Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
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Points: 10618
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 20:12 |
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There are many reasons that Hendrix has a strong relationship to prog. Many proggy songs, many more semi-proggy songs, his musically revolutionary interactions with Mitch Mitchell, his many jams and recordings with Robert Wyatt and other prog artists plus gigs at the Marque with almost every early prog artist in Britain plus tours with Pink Floyd, the many testamonies of his influence from Fripp, Emerson, Lord, Blackmore, Robert Wyatt, Ian Anderson, Zappa, Townsend, McLaughlin, Santana, Miles and many others, and his entirely revolutionary effect on rock in general including prog rock.
Rock became much bigger and much more imaginative after Jimi came along. I think this is something that is hard to understand unless you were alive back then. The buzz about Hendrix was incredible, he really moved people and totally blew people away, more than the Beatles, the Doors or Dylan or any other artist who generated a lot of word of mouth type news back then.
Oh Yeah, his last band was a psychedelic jazz fusion band with Larry Young on kybds (ex-McLaughlin, Miles, Santana).
Edited by Easy Money - December 13 2008 at 08:18
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Chris S
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Posted: December 13 2008 at 03:13 |
Easy Money wrote:
There are many reasons that Hendrix has a strong relationship to prog. Many proggy songs, many more semi-proggy songs, his musically revolutionary interactions with Mitch Mitchell, his many jams and recordings with Robert Wyatt and other prog artists plus gigs at the Marque with almost every early prog artist in Britain plus tours with Pink Floyd, the many testamonies of his influence from Fripp, Emerson, Lord, Blackmore, Townsend, McLaughlin, Santana, Miles and many others, and his entirely revolutionary effect on rock in general including prog rock.
Rock became much bigger and much more imaginative after Jimi came along. I think this is something that is hard to understand unless you were alive back then. The buzz about Hendrix was incredible, he really moved people and totally blew people away, more than the Beatles, the Doors or Dylan or any other artist who generated a lot of word of mouth type news back then.
Oh Yeah, his last band was a psychedelic jazz fusion band with Larry Young on kybds (ex-McLaughlin, Miles, Santana). |
yeah he jammed with Karlsson and Hansson too ( included here on PA), a great admirer of them. Many influential journeys and associations all over the place.
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Hendrix?