Have we lost the lyrics?

I can understand someone not enjoying vocals in music.  But, in Prog at least, lyrics are so often an integral part of the music (yes, the music).  Think Van der Graaf Generator.  Or PG Genesis.  I personally can't imagine those vocal lines being done without lyrics.  Lyrics can very definetly be musical.  Of course, you could just dictate words over music and then they wouldn't be, but to me that's a different thing (and mostly I find "spoken word" stuff to be kind of annoying in music..........but occasionally it works).

On the other hand, I can often ignore poor or even bad lyrics if the music is strong enough and the singer is good enough.  Though in many of those cases I find myself thinking they should have just done wordless vocals or used some other instrument for the vocal melodies.  But I really don't come across that all that often in Prog.  Or at least the Prog I choose to listen to (that has vocals and lyrics in the first place).

Henry Plainview wrote: I think that depends on whether or not you think Jon Anderson's ridiculous ramblings are worth listening to.

I have a fairly high threshold for bizarre metaphors in lyrics as long as the accompanying music is appropriately otherworldly, so I think the silliest thing about Jon Anderson is his vocal style rather than any of his songwriting. I've never liked his singing all that much, but at least it's expressive and the other components of Yes' music is good enough that his sub-Neil Young nasalness becomes more of an endearing quirk than a deal breaker in my book.

topofsm wrote: Well here's my two cents...   Most artists today (prog or non prog) suffer because they feel that songs are just a couple of riffs thrown together with a few words about love or sex or something. They feel that words are what make a song, however useless the words are. So a lot of the time, lyrics will just get in the way of being creative. And after all, some of the best music is instrumental. Most notably Jazz and Classical music, where the more glorified and long lasting pieces are instrumental. By focusing entirely on the music, an artist can create a mood or an idea far better than any words can.   However, there are bands like Tool and Pink Floyd, who make great music, but the way they use their music and compliment it with the lyrics, it puts the music on a different level, if not necessarily a better or worse one. But the truth is, sometimes I beleive that music as an art form speaks out like fine literature or poetry best with lyrics, because just like the two, it gives the listener/reader a chance to analyze the artists' opinion, and it also gives the viewer a chance to discover the problems with society and mankind, which is what fine poetry and literature are all about. You can't do that very well with instrumental bands.   Sorry if my words don't make sense, I should prolly get to bed.

This is what I have been trying to say for years now, but summed up more eloquently than I ever would/could. This is exactly what I feel bands like Genesis, Yes, VDGG and others were very aware of and is what made them so great. A song can be just a couple of riffs and a stupid lyric about sex and drugs, but it isn't how you make a beautiful song.

In most cases, anyway.

I could live without lyrics

Sure, everyone loves to extract a really catchy phrase, or a metaphorical line somewhere along the line. But does it really have anything to do with the music? My personal opinion is no.

Vocals are just another instrument, used to create music with the rest of the band. Whether a vocalists sings "I get up, I get down!!!" or "Na Naaa, naaa naa NAA!!!", it still makes good music. I LOVE a lot of music like this, like the end part of "South Side of the Sky" by Yes, or "Peking O" by Can, where all sorts of stuff is being screamed at loud volumes.

To be completely honest, I prefer instrumental music (And music in foreign languages). Why? This way I can immagine in my own mind what the music reminds me of, not what the vocalist is singing to me. Music should be that way in my opinion.

However, I do understand that a lot of people really enjoy listening and reading all the lyrics, and trying to find out the meaning, or just plain get the message the band is trying to get through. These people just enjoy their poetry and music together.

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It also seems that I am missing the part of your brain that picks up on lyrics, and character's names in movies (same part of the brain?). I never catch on to any of them, I don't notice lyrics, unless I read them, and only know name's of characters if I ask a friend.
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As for modern prog lyrics, I agree with you entirely; they are lacking the same "poetry" that earlier music had. The bands In general, don't put as much effort into creating lush metaphors of love, myth, or fantasy. Oh, and isn't signing about love in the 21st century "Gay"? It seems as if the bands are too scared to truly express the emotional sides of themselves, or simply don't care to make meaningfull lyrics.

I feel the same way with the production level of new albums too, they aren't as polished.

Ozzprog

Gents, and ladies,

   If the lyrics were meant to be ignored, there wouldn't be any. OR, would there? Does an opera audience know the specific words they are listening to? Do Germans know Italian? Do the French know German? Maybe, a little, but not very much. ( More than most Americans though, but that's another story...)

   I think the same dynamic applies to progressive rock. Just as an opera needs a story to hang the music on, so P-R needs something extra-musical to drap itself over. The more attention the band pays to the words, the better they are, and the more one gets out of noticing them.

   If one thinks that Pink Floyd's music is good, but the lyrics are a bit fractured, well, listen to the music. If one thinks that YES' lyrics are an integral part of the YesExperience, ignore them at your peril!

  Rush seems to be making lots of specific points in their script, and Genesis tells some wonderfully odd little tales.

   I find the more I listen to, and read, the words and liner notes to P-R albums, the more I get out of the experience.

  I'm done, this thread is getting threadbare...

Look, the lyrics are meant to show the singer's skill and show the concept or story of the song. The lyrics have always been written similarly, though I never cared that much; as long as they were there.

People who think lyrics are unimportant, well, what can I say? You can read poetry to a mule, but you can't make him appreciate it.