PA's Battle to Stardom B5: Rush v. Kayo Dot

Avantgardehead wrote: Just goes to show that when you have wildly innovative vs. safe, people take safe.

Well that's me.  I couldn't posssibly like anything innovative like Magma, Henry Cow, Univers Zero, or Koenjihyakkei by voting Rush....could I? 

NaturalScience wrote: Avantgardehead wrote: Just goes to show that when you have wildly innovative vs. safe, people take safe. Well that's me.  I couldn't posssibly like anything innovative like Magma, Henry Cow, Univers Zero, or Koenjihyakkei by voting Rush....could I?

Well I like Rush also, but come on!! It can't compare!! And look at my screenname...

Screw Kayou dot

Avantgardehead wrote: Just goes to show that when you have wildly innovative vs. safe, people take safe.

Edited by febus - October 30 2008 at 16:03

Do the Ozrics know that?

Kayo Dot seems considerably more mainstream to me than, say, John Zorn. Hmm, a Zorn vs. Driver poll, that might be interesting....


Edited by Logan - October 30 2008 at 16:16

Good answer, Alex and you are right. ...

Logan wrote: I prefer what I've heard of Toby Driver and Mia Matsumiya's TARTAR LAMB to Kayo Dot. http://www.myspace.com/tartarlamb

Tartar Lamb is good (prefer it to Dowsing), but Kayo Dot's latest is fantastic. My favorite by them and my favorite release of 2008. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being yours as well. The ones that are disapointed by it are mainly people that misses the metalparts that the two previous albums had a lot more of.

AlexUC wrote: febus wrote: Avantgardehead wrote: Just goes to show that when you have wildly innovative vs. safe, people take safe.   That's the most stupid statement i have ever read....NaturalScience mentioned he likes Magma , Henry Cow, Art Bears, National Health , Art Zoyd and of course Soft Machine,  groups highly more innovative than KDot....good band but innovative??/ He just happens to love Rush as well and Rush was not playing ''safe'' with Hemispheres and stuff like that  Well, if you compare [place any other band name here] with Magma, obviously nothing is innovative... But please, Kayo Dot is one of the most innovative earlier bands. Even speaking about innovation, Rush has nothing to do against KD (IMO of course), maybe the KD's output is not as acclaimed and influencing as Rush's, but don't rest them credit, they're highly innovative, nobody can't deny it. If you take together all the Driver's works, I think you can compare them with some classic innovative bands like Art Zoyd, Present, Samla, etc.. in terms of innovation. Again, IMO

I really don't see what makes them innovative. If someone explained this to me in plain English their music might make a little more sense. All I ever hear about this band is how innovative they are - but no one ever tell us what the hell they ever innvoated. I personally find their music to be boring and drawn out, but the people who love them would simply tell me that I have no taste in music for saying so. Magma was innovative for their distinct blend of french jazz and strange spaciness, other avant acts are innovative for a number of things like bringing industrial into the realm of  avant-prog (Sleepytime Goriila Museum) or for their peculiar approach to musical structure (Zappa, The Residents) and these people I have a lot of respect for.

Kayo Dot - what makes them so great? I very seriously beseach thee

mmm...hmmmm....

So let me get this strait - by your arguments.

1. We can't compare old bands to new bands. So what you're saying is that I can say that Spock's Beard and The Flower Kings are two of the most innovative bands in the world for their blend of classical music/jazz and classic rock. We can't compare them to Yes or Genesis since KD can't be compared to older bands - so these guys are the very best.

That arguement makes no sense. If the band has characteristics of another, older band, then how are they innovative. VdGG made much better use of the emotional buildup than any KD song I've ever heard.

2. I have no idea what your arguement is here.

Finally, in the specific case of KD, I've found a very interesting perspective in their concept of music. Toby Driver once said that KD doesn't create songs, they are just like movements, states, a musical image of moods, complex and changing moods. Yes, you could say "VDGG did this before", but I would add, "not so deeply". In other hand, you have a band exploring the concept of autophysiopsychic music, which is very interesting and avant . At last, the extravaganza of the compositions and the hypnotic improvisations are not easy to find in other bands... For me, this is enough to be qualified as innovative, in these difficult times

So KD doesn't create songs, neither does The Flower Kings, they build and build their small compositions into larger scale ones, and Roine Stolt often says that listening to his music is like watching a movie, by your logic, that is innovative. Complex songs and changing moods can be found in any band, any retro band and any pop band, hell, Rihanna has changing moods in her songs and her mix of Carribean "Carnival' beat combined with modern US R&B makes for a very "innvoative" combination, don't you think? The hypnotic mood that you describe can also be found in just about every and all post rock band, a genre which has been around a lot longer than Mr. Driver

KD offers nothing fresh to the table. Nothing that I haven't heard before, so I bring up comparisons with one of the most heavily thrashed bands for being unoriginal - TFK - and as you can see, there's a lot of parallels.