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horticulture52 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horticulture52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2008 at 08:54
I'd like to post a response to Grobsch's (aka Flavio's) review of Edensong's album the Fruit Fallen.

http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=191095

I think the review should be removed for the following reasons:

1) It goes against guideline # 1 in it's use of English.  The English is very broken and the places where the reviewer doesn't seem to be using an online translator fails to back up concrete reasons why they dislike the album.  Also, the reviewer has used a phrase I wouldn't consider English to describe the band.  That phrase is "tim-tam-tum."  This can not be found in the dictionary and even if if looked up online can only be found on sites in Italian and Portugese.  The reviewer is from Brazil, go figure.  Also, when the reviewer tries to back up his/her reasons, the English is incomprehensible.  the reviewer says:

Most people forgot what was progressive in the past. Just add a flute behind the vocalist - which cannot stop to sing a second - please stop to sing!!

What does this mean?  That a singer should stop to sing for a little when a flute is playing in the background or that the flute shouldn't be playing when a singer is singing?!?!  Does adding a flute while the vocalist sings make it progressive rock of the past or is it the opposite? This is completely incoherent.  I'm thoroughly confused.

2)  It goes against guideline #4.  It is not intelligent and not considerate because it fails to back up why the album is "annoying," refers to the album as a "practical joke," with no basis for why, and continues to compare the album in levels of annoyingness.  Here is one example.  The reviewer states:

The second song is called The Baptism and its as annoying as the first one.

This is the only remark the reviewer has about the song Baptism.  When the reviewer described the "first one," comments like, "Neo Pop Annoying Prog with Rush resemblances and other instruments like flute,"were made and do not help reviewers understand the piece.  What does "neo pop annoying prog," mean, and how does it resemble Rush?  What if the reader doesn't know Rush.  The Rush resemblance should be described.  Then the reviewer comments on the 4th song saying, 

When I reached the fourth song, The Prayer, even though is less annoying but still far from being a good song, I was almost giving up. I started to think I got the wrong album. Perhaps it was a pratical joke somene did to me."

The reviewer has yet again clung to the annoying level comparative strategy, claims it's far from being a good song without basis, and tops it off with lines that reference listening to the wrong album or it being a practical joke.  I'm sorry, that's just terrible commentary.

3) Lastly, this review goes against guideline's 5, 6, and 7. #5  Keep the review pertinent to the specific album concerned.  The reviewer says, "I miss Gentle Giant," randomly without making any comparison to Edensong.  #6 - This doesn't even benefit a reader who wouldn't like this album.  It is useless, as it makes general statements like ," The Sith Day, the sixty song, the same, just the same." (I guess referring to the same tim-tam-tum sound as the predecessor piece).  The reviewer should also check their English here as a reader might interpret this piece as a reference to Star Wars  (The Sith Day?) with a sixties style to it (sixty song?).  The song is called the Sixth Day and is the sixth song on the album.

Guidline #7- I doubt this review will make sense within five years today.  It doesn't even make sense now with all of the reasons I have stated.

I hope you consider my response and request to move this outrageous and incoherent review of Edensong's album the Fruit Fallen.  Thank you very much.

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AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AtomicCrimsonRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2008 at 21:49
Fair enough
 
i actually saw Zabriskie Point yesterday on cable and what a mess of a movie it is! The only good thing about it was Pink Floyds music - the opening credits and the explosive finale which is actually 'Careful with that Axe Eugene' anyway
 
that song is one of the most chilling in the canon!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberto Muñoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2008 at 10:55
Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

Good review - I personally do not like Pink Floyd's excursion into movie soundtracks
 
tho Zabriskie Point had some excellent ideas on the film soundtrack I guess.
Personally i love that album, it have very good songs for meWinkBig smile




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Alberto Muñoz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberto Muñoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2008 at 10:54
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Just saw this in the RRT

Originally posted by nahnite nahnite wrote:

I, personally, don't think anyone should be allowed to tell other people what to rate a prog record.  We're all adults here, so we can make up our minds as to whether or not a disc gets a good rating.  Who cares if it was their first disc or not?
 
 


...right!

1. where does the reviewer tell people what [sic, probably how] to rate a prog rock record? (EDIT: oh, I guess the fragment "should not be too highly regarded" is in question here...)
2. if we agree on each person rating the album according to their liking, where did the reviewer go wrong? Isn't his negative review of the album "his own view"?

Confused

(Hugues should be instead sanctioned for early under-50 words reviews. You fixed your IQ mini-rants yet, Hugues? Tongue)
i do not see anything wrong with the opinion of Hugues., if he do not like the album i respect his opinion but i do not agree with him.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ricochet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2008 at 10:48
Just saw this in the RRT

Originally posted by nahnite nahnite wrote:

I, personally, don't think anyone should be allowed to tell other people what to rate a prog record.  We're all adults here, so we can make up our minds as to whether or not a disc gets a good rating.  Who cares if it was their first disc or not?
 
 


...right!

1. where does the reviewer tell people what [sic, probably how] to rate a prog rock record? (EDIT: oh, I guess the fragment "should not be too highly regarded" is in question here...)
2. if we agree on each person rating the album according to their liking, where did the reviewer go wrong? Isn't his negative review of the album "his own view"?

Confused

(Hugues should be instead sanctioned for early under-50 words reviews. You fixed your IQ mini-rants yet, Hugues? Tongue)


Edited by Ricochet - November 19 2008 at 10:52
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AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AtomicCrimsonRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 00:54
Good review - I personally do not like Pink Floyd's excursion into movie soundtracks
 
tho Zabriskie Point had some excellent ideas on the film soundtrack I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2008 at 19:25
IMHO here is one more confirmation of the rule 'Silence is gold':

PINK FLOYD — Obscured By Clouds
Review by SouthSideoftheSky (Fritz-Anton) 
Prog Reviewer

1 stars Listening to this album it is hard to believe it was made in 1972. This album would have been more appropriate in 1968. While the previous album, Meddle, had constituted a step away from psychadelia, here Pink Floyd fully reverted to their old psychedelic style. In my opinion this music has nothing to do with progressive rock.

Also, I think that the songs on this album are not memorable at all, and some are even outright boring. The sonic quality of the recording is also not up to par with Meddle and Atom Heart Mother and certainly not with Dark Side Of The Moon and Wish You Were Here.

This album sounds more like it was made by a decent amateur band in the late 60’s than by a big professional band in the early 70’s.

This one is only for completionists

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2008 at 23:49
I try to include as many gratuitous references to Stockhausen, Sun Ra and Jimi Hendrix as I can. Xennakis, Ravel, Stravinsky and Les Baxter have to substitute occaisonally. I used to like to name drop Miles Davis, but now that he is on PA, that's become pointless.

Edited by Easy Money - October 20 2008 at 23:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AtomicCrimsonRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2008 at 23:19
I try to ensure all my reviews are different in some way and at times I can be technical as far as music and time signatures (Topographic, Close to the Edge), then at times I want to just have fun (Ziltoid), at other times I review each track with detail (In the Court of the Crimson King). Some I hate (Love Beach), some I love (Pawn Hearts). I find myself using the same word too much to describe tracks - the word quintessential is often used and other terms. It is not difficult to remain fresh but its worth trying.
The point is to be honest and not swayed by others rave reviews when you personally think it stinks...
 
Typos are inevitable tho I try to write them on word first....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progressive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2008 at 19:38
Short reviews can be very nice here and there, and personal touch and diversity are just good. You can think the short "reviews" as a part of the whole review that all reviews makes together. The amount of them can be a problem. But if they are invisible unless clicking that "show all reviews" or for example "show all reviews over 150 words" button, what's the problem? And I say recklessly that even 30 words can be considered, for example. There are some people who are not encouraged to write longer and "better" reviews in that case, but so what?

And for example now there stands "showing only reviews with more than 200 characters" in "Show all xxx reviews (and ratings)" But it's a mistake, too (there's also other mistakes, maybe I just go to the bugs forum :D)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2008 at 14:25
Writing reviews for some is a hobby, enjoyment,a passion, even the grizzly ones. Not to be overanalyzed, but once out in the public domain, open to good and bad crticism is natural.
 
In fact I know there was a thread somewhere ( given up trying the search functionConfused) that focussed on great reviews as these should be encouraged.
 
Maybe even if once a month the site owner elects the reviewer of the month award. No gift  just recognition on the front page?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2008 at 13:18
There's no definitive rules for anything in art, I only mentioned what I look in a review when I want to buy an album.
 
If a review doesn't tell me why an album is good, what influences or style do they play and gives me an idea of the album and/or tracks...Well it doesn't tell me anything.
 
The rest is style, I see a lot opf people who talk abiut the album as if it was an entity, others only about tracks, I like a different approach, track by tack but also the general atmosphere or style of the album.
 
Each one is good, it depends on the personal style.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberto Muñoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2008 at 12:32
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I don't think that all reviews should follow rules and formula, part of the magic of PA reviews is that many of them are unprofessional and unstructured, that they have no point or objective other than expressing the joy or disappointment of hearing an album.
 
The most important thing about writing a review is reading it to yourself before hitting the send-button.
 
The disadvantage  that i see is, sometimes we have to read some poor written reviews
 
I always prefer to write good reviews and even if i been stuck lately




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2008 at 12:14
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I don't think that all reviews should follow rules and formula, part of the magic of PA reviews is that many of them are unprofessional and unstructured, that they have no point or objective other than expressing the joy or disappointment of hearing an album.
 
The most important thing about writing a review is reading it to yourself before hitting the send-button.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2008 at 03:20
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I don't think that all reviews should follow rules and formula, part of the magic of PA reviews is that many of them are unprofessional and unstructured, that they have no point or objective other than expressing the joy or disappointment of hearing an album.
 
The most important thing about writing a review is reading it to yourself before hitting the send-button.


IndeedClap - even though I find that, no matter how happy I might be with my review after I've written it, I'll always find it lacking when reading it some time afterwards. But that's just me being a perfectionist, I suppose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2008 at 16:41
I don't think that all reviews should follow rules and formula, part of the magic of PA reviews is that many of them are unprofessional and unstructured, that they have no point or objective other than expressing the joy or disappointment of hearing an album.
 
The most important thing about writing a review is reading it to yourself before hitting the send-button.
What?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberto Muñoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2008 at 16:27
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

Zafreth, just checked the link you provided. You're a bit foolish to put that on a public forum, you should have kept it to yourself and asked money for it - Zafreth's Review Authoring Course LOL

LOLLOLLOL
LOLLOL
Seriously though: I see where you're coming from (and going to), but you'll never change all our reviewers....

i'm not intending to change people i'm only giving more toolsWink.
And the question is where am i going to?Wink





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2008 at 16:25
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:


@NotAProgHead: We have members following certain reviewers - it would be a shame if one of those would not write a review for an album because others had already done that. Their followers would not get their regular portion of information. It may not be your way, but we have quite a few members who work that way. Oh, and stop hijacking Peter's color schemes Wink

Good argument, maybe the only worthwhile here.

Don't know what Peter you're talking about, but anyway my respect to him. Smile 


Edited by NotAProghead - October 19 2008 at 16:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angelo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2008 at 16:06
Zafreth, just checked the link you provided. You're a bit foolish to put that on a public forum, you should have kept it to yourself and asked money for it - Zafreth's Review Authoring Course LOL

Seriously though: I see where you're coming from (and going to), but you'll never change all our reviewers....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberto Muñoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2008 at 15:57
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

zafreth, it seems we'll never make "lazy readers-active writers" LOL to change, even a little, their mind.Cry 

They tell they dob't want to be influenced, but I guess in fact they are only lazy to read. Wink 


hahaha i agree with youLOLWink




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