Necrophagist, Yay or Nay?

I´m sensing you have a hard time understanding the soul of extreme metal.

Yeah I see that now. A lost conservative purist.

UMUR wrote: I´m sensing you have a hard time understanding the soul of extreme metal.   If you don´t think that Necrophagist approach to the genre is progressive. I don´t think you´ve heard much death metal. But you´re welcome to prove me wrong. You almost make me think you know less about metal than you claim too... if you really do know much about metal, you'll know many bands released tech death records many years before Necrophagist. Many of the earlier tech death bands were more jazz influenced than neo-classical influenced, that is correct. Necrophagist is getting the neo-classical side of tech death and refining it   By the way I forgot to ask you this question which I should have asked long before this discussion got going. Have you even heard Epitaph ? Really sat down and listened to that album from start to finnish ?   About Hawkwind and Pink Floyd. I love them both. Great bands and yes no bands really sounded like them before, but the same can be said about Necrophagist. They are an original band. Not just a clone of someone else like you seem to think. Their basic ideas are death metal related. Growling vocals, power chord and tremolo riffing, but it´s a matter of how it´s done that sets them apart from bands like Napalm Death ( well they actually only made one real death metal album but Harmony Corruption is a classic in the genre so I´ll mention them), Obituary, Malevolent Creation, Monstrosity, Entombed, Dismember, Benediction, Bolt Thrower and Bloodbath just to mention some of the most prolific. Again, Necrophagist are refining the genre, not defining it. Big difference.   None of the above mentioned bands are artists that I would suggest for addition to PA, but as I stated earlier there is a difference between old school death metal  and tech death metal. The technical playing and the use of elements from other genres ( Baroque like notes and runs, time signature changes) in the death metal genre makes them progressive IMO. Just because they don´t find their influences in classic seventies prog like Opeth or Enslaved don´t mean that bands like Necrophagist are not prog related. Necrophagist are prog related at absolute best, but even that is a stretch. Now I read a couple of your reviews and I see that you don´t even consider Meshuggah to be progressive????? I think that shows exactly how little you understand about metal. You seem to think and I quote from you Catch 33 review: Although a lot of thought has clearly gone into the details and subtle changes, the overall effect is of a single riff used for an excessive length of time, with some simple effects and death-metal vocals. I´m sorry but this is laughable. One single riff ??? I think a groundbreaking band like Meshuggah commands a bit more respect than that. Again I think it shows exactly what your feelings are towards tech metal. And by the way. Jens Kidman´s vocals are widely not considered to be death metal growls ( at least if you ask people who know anything about metal that is). Extreme distorted vocals yes but death metal growl no. This is the kind of nuance you´re missing when you say that that Necrophagist is not a progressive band ( not that we´re talking about vocals here, but it goes to show your lack of appreciation for detail). This last paragraph I can agree with, for the most part. I have listened to Meshuggah records over and over again, and Cert's analysis is way over simplified. Jens Kidman screams and shouts... far different from death growls. And you are right, ask anyone that knows the death metal scene well, and they tell you Kimdamn's vocals are vastly different from death growls.   There seems to be an agenda here that you don´t think any extreme metal belong here ? If that´s the case let´s drop this discussion because then our opinions simply differ too much and this discussion will be fruitless. I can´t convince you with my high school english anyway. I don´t think about music in such academic terms.

You see, it's almost as if you think it's a loss if Necrophagist don't get into PA.

Why does it seem to bother you?

Necrophagist are a great band, surely that is enough?
Even if they aren't prog, they are still widely discussed on heavy metal forum boards elsewhere.
They get a lot of recognition for what they do, because they are good at what they do, which is pure tech death metal, plain and simple.

It's not like it's any loss for Necrophagist either in terms of getting extra fans, because I know any intelligent metal fan is going to go over to heavy metal forum/discussion boards to find out about metal bands they don't know yet.
I know, because as one of those intelligent metal fans, I go to other sites to look for news/info on metal well before I come to PA, because quite simply there are far better resources for metal than PA (and no offence intended to PA).

Prog is an abbreviation of Progressive Rock (metal being a sub-category of rock, or evolution of rock so Progressive Metal is also considered Prog).  Progressive Jazz (as a style/ genre), for instance, was around before Progressive Rock, but is not included, though Progressive Jazz-Rock is (and of course jazz is a common element in various kinds of Prog).  Not all progressive music is Prog, and not all Prog is progressive.  It is easier for a clone/ heavily influenced by a Prog band than a really innovative band that is not that similar to other bands here.  Progressive as an adjective describes newness and moving forward, but Prog is a noun which can refer to a movement and styles/ genre (I don't think of it as a specific genre with subgenres, but like to think about approach).  It is important to differentiate progressive (adjective) from Prog (noun), but I value the progressive attribute in Prog (the expansion/ advancement of the rock genre... breaking or moving away from established conventions.  A reason why I appreciate the approach of Rock and Metal in Opposition bands which go against industry/ commercial conventions/ expectations).

Edited by Logan - October 18 2008 at 14:30