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Topic ClosedThe most musically complex prog band(s)?
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AlexUC View Drop Down
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Points: 392 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2008 at 11:28
Originally posted by jimidom jimidom wrote:

Originally posted by faceofdoomness faceofdoomness wrote:

I'd say the most musically complex band is Dun a Zeuhl Prog band from France.. their music is so dense, discordant and complex that it even makes Gentle Giant seem simple. There's so any time signature changes and so many over lapping instruments and lots of complex rhythms that they somehow pull off.

Just listen to the entirety of their only mp3 on this site: Arrakis

My interest is piqued. I'll have to check that out. Sounds like a challenging listen! Cool


Oh yes it is. Imagine Zappa playing Zeuhl.
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Points: 106 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 16:25
I don't know who is the *most* complex prog band, but I would give my vote to Osanna.
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Points: 2 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2008 at 20:42
I like to make a difference between "complex" and "complicated", between rich and unclear.

Anyway, Gente Giant (King of Counterpoint), Henry Cow, and Zappa come to mind. Have you heared the WAZOO cd, by Zappa + his big band live in 72? wow, how can THAT come out from a human (guitarist ) brain....?

Ah, and I've recently heard an album by Ben Monder, "Oceano", you have the impression there are 2 guitars, but no you're wrong - he's an alien.
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Points: 231 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2008 at 19:51
Frank Zappa, Gentle Giant
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Points: 6673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2008 at 20:01
When Zappa was in his all instrumental mode, it was down right scary! Especially when he tossed in some Varese/Bartok  inspired flavorings. The man was ridiculously complex and his music shone . Tongue
Mahavishnu Orchestra, Magma, Soft Machine, Giant, RTF, Weather Report , Isotope were some of the more head scratching stuff. Big%20smile  Now off course, there are new bands who are mathematical/mach 3/ orbital and complex simply for the throne.Sleepy  Fripp once said that the most complex note he ever played was..... silence. Wink


Edited by tszirmay - October 08 2008 at 20:02
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Points: 5208 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2008 at 14:06

To me complex and avant garde can sound similar but come from a different place. Avant to me is throwing convention completely out the window and avoiding traditional structure, often introducing intentional chaos, which can inspired, mindblowing, complete noise, self-indulgent, useless, and often combinations of them all.

Complex involves multiple interconnecting parts, the more and more involved the connections the more "complex." This gain be inspired, mindblowing, sterile, boring, self-indulgent, useless.....you get the idea.

Mr. Bungle, Zappa, Crimson all used elements of both. Gentle Giant is more complex than avant garde, while they certainly redefined convention, nothing ever felt random, in fact, rarely even improvised.

Now that that's clear as mud....
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Points: 3834 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2008 at 16:16
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Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2008 at 04:52
Originally posted by kibble_alex kibble_alex wrote:

MESHUGGAH
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Points: 10387 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2008 at 05:12
Originally posted by Louison79 Louison79 wrote:

Anyway, Gente Giant (King of Counterpoint), Henry Cow, and Zappa come to mind. Have you heared the WAZOO cd, by Zappa + his big band live in 72? wow, how can THAT come out from a human (guitarist ) brain....?

sorry for having to disagree, but the king of counterpoint in prog is Peter Hammill. what he does in his opera "The Fall of the House of Usher" makes Gentle Giant appear simple in comparison


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Points: 730 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2008 at 21:40
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

DT has complex moments, but for the most part they have become very formulaic.  When speaking in prog- metal terms, there are several bands that are far more complex. Unexpect uses multiple vocalists, keys and RIO textures. In fact, I would call it "Metal in Oposition". Martyr, especially their last album, Feeding the Abscess, makes DT sound like Journey. Chile's Coprofago was extremely complex with Unorthodox Creative Createria, throwing in Holdsworth style jazz sections. And of course, Ron Jarzombek and Spastic Ink. The cool thing about RJ's projects is he explains the meanings behind the complexity and does it w/o inflated ego or condescension.  Someone also mentioned Behold...the Arctopus, a fine choice indeed.

The RIO/Avaunt Gard sub-genre has the greatest abundance of complex bands.  For pure complexity Zappa is the most consistent. Even when a song has an overall "straight ahead" texture, you can hear underlying complexity. e.g. One Size Fits All, Roxy and Elsewhere.  Mr. Bungle, with their "flick of the switch" style changes are also pretty out there. In this sub-genre complexity is very much in the ear of the beholder. Bands like Universe Zero, Captain Beefheart, and The Flying Luttenbachers are outrageously complex, but might lean to far into the dissonant side for many listeners. Even Zappa goes to those places with some of his work, particularly his orchestral pieces like LSO I & II, Yellow Shark. 

Jazz/Fusion also has tons of complex bands like Brand X, Return to Forever. Jazz is of course founded on complexity. Even in the 1930's, Raymond Scott was doing some very complex music. (He might fit well in PA)

For Zeuhl I would have to go with (I know some Magma zealot is going to shoot me) KoenjiHyakkei.
 
Amongst other sub-genres, Giant Giant is exceptionally complex, nobody has more vocal complexity. And of course King Crimson, lots of instrumental "talkback" and flighty finger on guitar.  

I see people in this thread answering with the more "accessible" bands. Dig deeper if you like complexity. The most complex stuff is not mass produced. For pre-1990, go with bands in the Jazz/Fusion or RIO/Avant genres. Post-1990, Tech/Extreme Metal seems to the best bet if want to hear complexity.


this is exactly, exactly what I would have typed!  well done.  thread over! Clap

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Points: 213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2008 at 05:48
Complex often = cheesy.

I love winding everybody up!!!!

How about

Overcomplex = Incomprehensible

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Points: 37 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2008 at 06:17
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Points: 79 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2008 at 11:05
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by HughesJB4 HughesJB4 wrote:

Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

There may even be someone who finds, say, Celine Dion's music to be complexLOL...
 
Let that be the last time that's said here on PALOL
 
no... she's right... Try listening to a whole album by Celine.. how more complex can life get? LOL
 
I don't know what is the most complex prog I've heard. i can't add that much to this discussion other than I go with what I like. For example, I don't like DT for being "complex" (actually, they're not), but because I love to hear their music. The same with more complex bands like Genesis. VDGG is more complex but I don't enjoy it that much, and Timberlake's songs are not complex at all and I enjoy them even less... So, for me, complexity is but just a little element in music.
 
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Points: 79 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2008 at 11:11

not for more complexity you are the best... there are a lot of bands that their sound is ridiculous and they are very very complex.
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Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2008 at 03:39
Originally posted by Vi0LaToR Vi0LaToR wrote:

not for more complexity you are the best... there are a lot of bands that their sound is ridiculous and they are very very complex.



This is the kinda of crap you find at Harmony central or SMMnews.

"OMG U R TEH BEST".
Grow the hell up man.

Your post hardly even makes sense.

"there are a lot of bands that their sound is ridiculous and they are very very complex."

WTH does that even mean?
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Points: 153 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2008 at 03:33
Anglagard
Gentle Giant
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Doomcifer View Drop Down
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Points: 177 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 17:38

From what I have heard...

 
Anglagard
Gentle Giant
Meshuggah
Zappa
Spiral Architect
Yes
 
and tons of tech/extreme metal


Edited by Doomcifer - November 01 2008 at 17:41
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Points: 10841 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 20:04
Kraftwerk.
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 20:57
I don`t know
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