Progarchives.com has always (since 2002) relied on banners ads to cover web hosting fees and all.
Please consider supporting us by giving monthly PayPal donations and help keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage") |
Reviews discussion |
Post Reply 
|
Page <1 7071727374 182> |
| Author | |||
Alberto Muñoz 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Posted: October 03 2008 at 18:33 |
||
It's not a Nazi thing, obiously the guy has the right to disagree in matter of tastes, but i still found his review (and several others) incredibly thin and poor written.
|
|||
 |
|||
 |
|||
|
debrewguy
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3596 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 03 2008 at 22:54 |
||
Hopefully not whine like you ?  I get a hint that you believe that ELP albums should be "protected" against blasphemous reviews. It is possible to dislike even the highly praised prog albums, is it not ? And if you feel that ELP albums do not deserve one star reviews, can we say that is an opinion that YOU hold ??? Which is what the review in question is - an opinion ... Edited by debrewguy - October 03 2008 at 22:57 |
|||
|
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
|
|||
|
|||
|
debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3596 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 03 2008 at 22:59 |
||
And this disqualifies him from reviewing ELP albums for what reason ??? It is very nice of you to allow us to rate ELP less than 5 star. Is there a minimum rating we should stick to,so as to please you  |
|||
|
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
|
|||
|
|||
|
crimson87
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: January 03 2008 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 1818 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 03 2008 at 23:49 |
||
Wow , you are quite a clairvoyant!! Of course I think that way in order to balance out the huge amount of flak they get.
Besides "Trilogy" is no "Earthbound".Only an unhearable or a useless album could be qualified with one star.You may like (or not) a certain band but that does not make the album worthless.
if I listened to RIO or Zeuhl for the first time , I would not go and give the album a low rank becouse it's not average prog rock.
You know , if I had been so inpulsive DT's albums should be ranked wery low.
Instead I gave 4 stars to Images and Words and 3 to SFAM
|
|||
|
|||
|
crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 1818 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 03 2008 at 23:56 |
||
|
Actually the six stars category should be created for "Brain Salad Surgery". Talk about an underrated masterpiece.
Or you can do as I do: If a band is not a cup of tea do not review it.Give a symphonic prog fan the chance to review Tangerine Dream's "Zeit" he probably will not like it becouse it's very different from Foxtrot and such.
|
|||
|
|||
|
Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 04 2008 at 01:25 |
||
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65701 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 04 2008 at 01:26 |
||
|
I don't think it's necessary to get caught up in the # of stars, and if you read the star definitions; 5 is not a perfect album, but rather essential , and 1 is not worthless but instead poor or for completionists.. and besides, the value of a review is in the review itself, not the rating.. would you really want to decide an albums worth based on some stars?
|
|||
|
|||
|
Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 04 2008 at 01:31 |
||
|
for example compare that review with this: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=122295
Same ranking BTW but strong arguments and reasons and well written of course. I expect this kind of review for a "prog reviewer" |
|||
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 04 2008 at 02:22 |
||
|
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 04 2008 at 02:26 |
||
|
Anyway, out of all this discussion - maybe an official response from the Admins?
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24438 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 04 2008 at 03:18 |
||
|
OK, I don't want to sound nasty, but the author of the review in question (who has long dropped off the radar, though he still bears the title of PR) is not known for being subtle in his approach to things he doesn't like or disagrees with. As a matter of fact, he more or less left the site for good when he attacked me over a controversial addition, choosing the wrong moment to do so. I won't go into details now, but what he wrote in his reviews doesn't surprise me at all, knowing his general modus operandi.
That said, I think the rules for reviews are quite clear as regards avoiding derogatory statements such as 'rubbish'. A good reviewer should be able to write a one-star review without resorting to objectionable language - which is difficult indeed, but is also a mark of genuine talent. |
|||
|
|||
|
Moatilliatta
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 01 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3083 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 04 2008 at 03:24 |
||
Disregarding your off-topic first sentence, if no one could/does post negative reviews, we couldn't offer a fair and balanced variety of viewpoints. If I'm looking to get into a band, and I'm only allowed to see reviews from people who the love the band and their work, I might be mislead if everyone with similar tastes to me hates it and can't/doesn't review it for that reason.
Furthermore, I happen to enjoy most of Brain Salad Surgery, so the band potentially is my cup of tea, but I might still give low scores to their other albums. That seems perfectly reasonable.
|
|||
|
www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
 
|
|||
|
|||
|
Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 04 2008 at 03:45 |
||
I mentioned in the reporting thread that the review was harsh and that I did not like it's tone much. Nevertheless, it did not appear to breach any guidelines. I'm taking notice of these disucssions though.
 |
|||
|
|||
|
Norbert
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 20 2005 Location: Hungary Status: Offline Points: 2506 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 04 2008 at 08:31 |
||
|
Nobody has noticed it yet?
An Admin described Soft Machine's Third as "Turds". It means "utter crap" or something like that, as far as I am concerned. Of course anyone is entitled to dislike a certain album or band, but this wasn't too nice either.
Anyway, people should not review genres frequently which they don't get at all.
For example, Iván Melgar M should not review extreme metal albums too frequently, as the Still Life review shows it well.
On the other hand his Symphonic and Neo reviews are usually very good.
|
|||
|
|||
|
Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 04 2008 at 08:51 |
||
|
We know about the "Turds" thing, and the Admin had no problem removing the word, if asked (back then..)
But, just like in Joey's case, we're going back to previous years, into reviews that probably don't even characterize as anymore: this Soft Machine review is from 2004!. Joey's review is from 2006. "Anyway, people should not review genres frequently which they don't get at all." More like don't like, as it is my case with Metal, for example. But don't get?! Is there a judge saying what we know or not about something here, that I've missed? Okay, bit extreme, but anyway, I've seen Iván review 3 Metal albums until now, he admitted he's not a fan of Metal, then again Opeth was his first with 2 stars (Symphony X receiving normal applauses instead...) did he not get Prog Metal at all then, or just not Opeth or Opeth's album instead?!?!)Iván's Opeth review hasn't got anything wrong IMO, if writing negatively suddenly became wrong, while writing positively (and, to add, about the genre you are into most) has become "good", that's just twisted valuing... Edited by Ricochet - October 04 2008 at 08:52 |
|||
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Angelo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 04 2008 at 08:53 |
||
|
Hmmm. Interesting observation. Knowing Bob, the Turds is probably a play of words (third and turd sound alike). This kind of pun is risky on an international site, but it happens occasionally.
Apart from that, what's the relation between this and the fact that people should not review 'too frequently genres that they do not understand'? I can't imagine Bob reviewing a lot of jazz, or Iván reviewing a lot of metal. Then again, people tend to rely on certain reviewers, including these two gentlemen. For these followers it can be very useful to read that their favourite reviewer doesn't like something at all - it very likely means that they won't like it either and that there's no need for them to buy it. It affects the rating a bit, maybe, but at least it's honest towards our visitors to not only have positive reviews about every album. |
|||
|
ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
|||
|
|||
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 04 2008 at 09:14 |
||
|
It's the age-old subjective/objective argument and any rating can be justified when explained in the review, which is why I don't take much notice of ratings without reviews....
However reviews without ratings would be something I'd like to see - if a person doesn't like a particular artist or album there is nothing wrong with stating that in a review, but I am of the opinion that it should not be reflected in the rating and if the reviewer cannot bring themselves to give generally accepted 4-star album a high rating, there should be an option not to rate it at all, so the overall average is not affected.... of course that does not mean that unrated = zero stars.
|
|||
|
What?
|
|||
|
|||
|
Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 04 2008 at 09:43 |
||
Why should I avoud reviewing an album that I received? BTW: I usually don't review Opeth albums because I don't buy Opeth albums, but if I get another one, I will revview it.
Have I insulted anybody or used derogatotry terms?
Pr is it that I don't have the right toi dislike the unnatural sounds Akerfeldt makes?
I've been honest, the music is good, if it wasn't for the growls, I would had rated the album much higher.
If I'm not wrong I reviewed 3 Metal albums in 240 reviews
Nobody said anything about the Torman Maxt 2 stars because most people gave that album 1 star, but in the case of Opeth I believe I touched a sensitive nerve, but as I review this album with two stars, Irated with the same numvber oif stars some of my favorite artists, including Kansas, Marillion, Yes, ELP and Rick Wakeman:
Did anybody said a word when I gave two stars to Tarkus or Larks Tongues in Aspic? Seems that Opeth is untouchable, I only expressed what others say, Akerfeldt growls and I dislike that.
But never, and I repeat never, used any insulting or derogatory term.
Iván
PS: Thanks Rico, I agree with you 100%, but one slight correction, I get Opeth's album I don't get Akerfeldt growls, as I don't get Steve Howe or Jon Anderson's voice.
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 04 2008 at 10:55 |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 04 2008 at 11:18 |
||
I wouldn't go for that myself Dean. There are some highly rated albums which to my ears are absolute garbage. I feel quite comfortable reflecting that in my rating. I believe having a good cross section of ratings supported by reviews offers the reader the facility to decide for themselves whether the album is likely to appeal to them. I don't believe any album should be immune from adverse ratings if that is the reviewers honest opinion.
Where I do have a concern though is in that some reviewers can be rather superficial in their listening. By definition, prog will often be difficult to appreciate. Listening once simply in order to submit a review does not provide the reviewer with sufficient ammunition to write an informed appraisal. What i would like to see, and it is totally impractial(!), is a note beside each review of how often the reviewer has listened to the album.
|
|||
|
|||
|
Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Offline Points: 17340 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: October 04 2008 at 12:38 |
||
|
What I find a bit strange about Ivan's review is not that he doesn't appreciate growls. Even though that style is inherent to a fair percentage of the genre, he explains clearly that he likes the music but hates the vocal. Fine, that is opinion. The part I don't like is that he states right off the top he has only heard the album for a few days, a few plays, something like that. I think before a SC writes about a highly-beloved piece of music by so many people, it deserves to be given a few weeks or months to be appreciated, not a weekend.
I'm not proud of all my reviews, especially older ones. In fact, some are pure sh*t and need to be redone. But since being given Collab status I think it requires me to give an album a more extended period of plays before I pass a 1 or 2 star rating onto an album that many consider a classic. Unless we're talking about a rental DVD or something, I really try to listen to anything for a long period before beginning a review. These comments are general, I'm not picking on Ivan with this, it was just his review that brought up the topic. I agree with Bob about reviews without ratings, and of course I agree with Dean about listening for a longer time before rating. |
|||
|
...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
|
|||
|
|||
|
Post Reply
|
Page <1 7071727374 182> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
King By-Tor wrote:
Essential: a masterpiece of progressive music (0%)
Excellent addition to any prog music collection (0%)
Good, but non-essential (0%)
Collectors/fans only (0%)
Poor. Only for completionists (0%)
DOORS, THE - Live at the Hollywood Bowl