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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2008 at 23:12
Originally posted by crimson87 crimson87 wrote:

Review

OpethGuitarist
(Joey Kelley)
Prog Reviewer
1%20stars Bright and jolly, but ultimately tiresome.

After the darker Tarkus epic, ELP produce the much more maligned Trilogy, which seems to be closer to BSS in sound, and as some may know, I feel it's overrated rubbish. Too often I find bands being pardoned for their weak songs as a sign of the band having a "sense of humor". Strange that these ideas are never looked at in another way, in that, maybe others do have a sense of humor, perhaps we have a knack for good comedy, and think of the musicians as just plain bad comedians.

Such is the case with ELP here again, with "The Sherrif" among others. It's just filler for ELP's quest to stray as much from songwriting as humanly possible, to in a strict sense, masturbate with their instruments. Take away the flair, the gaudy lights display and marketing of a big name, and we are left with little substance - little music. ELP are more than able to play their instruments, but as evidenced by the circus of Endless Enigma, the slow and rarely captivating From the Beginning, the "we need an end to this long solo effort" on Trilogy (which actually has a good piano section at the beginning), and the overextended march of Abaddons' Balero, one wonders if ELP ever had a concept for songwriting.

Such is the case for how I see most of this record. If you're looking for virtuosos of the instruments, you will find much better elsewhere, and if you're looking for songwriting you'll find much better across almost all of prog. However, if you are looking for a big show with lots of lights, spazz, and a big name to market, Trilogy might be right for you.

 
I think that since this guy is a prog reviewer , he should be aware of the ratings he gives because this may lower the album's overall qualification
 
Morover , how on earth this guy happens to be a prog reviewer? , he writes like a 13 year old fanboy!
Since the moment you wrote "I FEEL IS OVERRATED RUBBISH" your review deserves no respect.
I think that collaborators should be aware of ELP's reviews 'cause some of them are terribly biased.
 
 
^That reviewer has that style. If we were to look in his reviews we'll find lots of "overrated rubbish" remarks. He sometimes makes good points, though. But he always comes off as slightly arrogant and disrespectful when he doesn't like something.


Edited by Easy Livin - October 03 2008 at 03:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moatilliatta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2008 at 23:32
^^Well, the last paragraph was written poorly, but the first two paragraphs seem solid and well written, with good points. I think you're just complaining because you disagree. Why is everyone so easily offended by people's opinons around here? Sure, it's slightly disrepectful, but it's not absolutely awful of him to call it "rubbish."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crimson87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 13:14
c MON  that review is not objective at all. Iam not asking to give the album 5 stars but the guy clearly has something against ELP
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberto Muñoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 13:31
Originally posted by crimson87 crimson87 wrote:

c MON  that review is not objective at all. Iam not asking to give the album 5 stars but the guy clearly has something against ELP
 
Agree with that!




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ricochet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 13:37
Strong words used (but only in places), maybe a bit of irritation that isn't healthy for reviewing (I rarely get/got irritated, which is probably why I have, for now, very few 1 star reviews, but in many of those cases, I simply got irritated too much, which is a difference Wink), but overall Joey's review can stay.

In the meantime, I'd suggest for the member who reported J's review not to ask "how on earth this guy happens to be a prog reviewer?" before reading more than this review. Joey has put more into the reviewing box before and after being promoted...

...plus that you can't write like a "13 year old fanboy" if you hate the album!!! Tongue

With due respect, I get a bit of the same feeling Moatilliatta got: the "reporter" was a bit too frustrated by Joey's frustration and, ultimately, view on Trilogy. Maybe "reporting" the review was perfectly fine, but the reactions to it contain a bit of "anger".

But back to the issue, "Rubbish" and such words are examples of frustrated negativism that you read even in "higher places". I ain't fond of it, personally, but it's a form of popular vulgar term too...It could be edited, in the end...


Edited by Ricochet - October 03 2008 at 13:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ricochet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 13:44
Originally posted by crimson87 crimson87 wrote:

c MON  that review is not objective at all. Iam not asking to give the album 5 stars but the guy clearly has something against ELP


It's not purely objective, but subjective writing isn't prohibited either. In terms of arguments, the reviewer brings a fair amount: the essential being a total dissapointment in the songwriting and the "little substance" in music.

I'm not sure if Emerson refused to give him an autograph (in the 90s, that is), so that he would "have something against ELP", I think he moreover doesn't like the music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberto Muñoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 13:49

Sorry for step my nose in this, but crismon87 have right.

 
One of the goals of PA is to write "High Quality Reviews" , at least the ELP reviewer, has to be more objetive, his review is painfull to read and don't have arguments at all.
 
That album is a very good record, if that reviewer don't like the album, please he should avoid to write about it.
 
For example i do not like Messugah, i respect thqat band but i never dare to wrtie a review of a band that i do not like his music.
 
it's common sense after all.
 
I preferred to write good well crafted reviews of band and albums that i like, that SH***ty reviews of bands or albums that i do not like in the first place.
 
 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberto Muñoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 13:51
Originally posted by zafreth zafreth wrote:

Sorry for step my nose in this, but crismon87 have right.

 
One of the goals of PA is to write "High Quality Reviews" , at least the ELP reviewer, has to be more objetive, his review is painfull to read and don't have arguments at all.
 
That album is a very good record, if that reviewer don't like the album, please he should avoid to write about it.
 
For example i do not like Messugah, i respect that band but i never dare to write a review of a band that i do not like his music.
 
it's common sense after all.
 
I preferred to write good well crafted reviews of band and albums that i like, that SH***ty reviews of bands or albums that i do not like and wasting my time  in the first place.
 
 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 13:59
Originally posted by zafreth zafreth wrote:

Originally posted by zafreth zafreth wrote:

Sorry for step my nose in this, but crismon87 have right.

 
One of the goals of PA is to write "High Quality Reviews" , at least the ELP reviewer, has to be more objetive, his review is painfull to read and don't have arguments at all.
 
That album is a very good record, if that reviewer don't like the album, please he should avoid to write about it.
 
For example i do not like Messugah, i respect that band but i never dare to write a review of a band that i do not like his music.
 
it's common sense after all.
 
I preferred to write good well crafted reviews of band and albums that i like, that SH***ty reviews of bands or albums that i do not like and wasting my time  in the first place.
 
 
 
If people only wrote reviews of albums they liked, this site would have nothing but 4 or 5 star albums and then the ratings would lose credibility.  I think there is a lot of sense in writing a review of an album you don't like, namely warning others to keep away.  However, I do think that for 1 or 5 star ratings, there should of course be compelling reasons for such a rating.  While the review on ELP was a bit harsh, he did give reasons for his rating. 
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberto Muñoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 14:08
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

Originally posted by zafreth zafreth wrote:

Originally posted by zafreth zafreth wrote:

Sorry for step my nose in this, but crismon87 have right.

 
One of the goals of PA is to write "High Quality Reviews" , at least the ELP reviewer, has to be more objetive, his review is painfull to read and don't have arguments at all.
 
That album is a very good record, if that reviewer don't like the album, please he should avoid to write about it.
 
For example i do not like Messugah, i respect that band but i never dare to write a review of a band that i do not like his music.
 
it's common sense after all.
 
I preferred to write good well crafted reviews of band and albums that i like, that SH***ty reviews of bands or albums that i do not like and wasting my time  in the first place.
 
 
 
If people only wrote reviews of albums they liked, this site would have nothing but 4 or 5 star albums and then the ratings would lose credibility.
 
I think  the site will  not loose credibility after all, but more honest and objective of a reviewer that explains in detail why not liked that album sure improves the ELP reviewer album.
 
I do not like to read reviews with offensives words after all is sort of a vulgarity to me and a very poor use of the language that the reviewer have.
 
For example if we get paid for write a review, this guy who wrote that ELP album review surely loose the job.
 
The guide to write reviews are clear and must be follow.
 
 
  I think there is a lot of sense in writing a review of an album you don't like,
 
I agree in part, but you can avoid the bad words and read the dictionary if you fell that you don't have a very extended lexicon.
 
 
namely warning others to keep away.  However, I do think that for 1 or 5 star ratings, there should of course be compelling reasons for such a rating.  While the review on ELP was a bit harsh, he did give reasons for his rating. 
 
A very poor reasons actually and a horrible use of the language in my opinion. 


Edited by zafreth - October 03 2008 at 14:08




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ricochet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 14:44
Originally posted by zafreth zafreth wrote:

Sorry for step my nose in this, but crismon87 have right.

 
One of the goals of PA is to write "High Quality Reviews" , at least the ELP reviewer, has to be more objetive, his review is painfull to read and don't have arguments at all.
 
High Quality yes, no one says Joey's review is flawless or the best ever, but neither the opposite, IMO. Arguments exists.

That album is a very good record, if that reviewer don't like the album, please he should avoid to write about it.
 
No he should not avoid, everyone can write what he want about!

For example i do not like Messugah, i respect thqat band but i never dare to wrtie a review of a band that i do not like his music.

I don't like Metal, which is why I don't review Metal, out of the same respect you mention, I agree! But here we're not talking about a genre or a style, we're not talking about music in which the reviewer doesn't find himself, so to respond with anger and bashing to that music, we're talking about an album, and I get a feeling that Joey liked Tarkus, for example, while not Trilogy.
 
it's common sense after all.
 
I preferred to write good well crafted reviews of band and albums that i like, that SH***ty reviews of bands or albums that i do not like in the first place.
 
Here we can check Joey's full amount of reviews, he has reviewed a lot and from his favourites down to albums he liked less. Nothing wrong!
 


Edited by Ricochet - October 03 2008 at 14:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberto Muñoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 15:23
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Originally posted by zafreth zafreth wrote:

Sorry for step my nose in this, but crismon87 have right.

 
One of the goals of PA is to write "High Quality Reviews" , at least the ELP reviewer, has to be more objetive, his review is painfull to read and don't have arguments at all.
 
High Quality yes, no one says Joey's review is flawless or the best ever, but neither the opposite, IMO. Arguments exists.
Poorish argument IMO
That album is a very good record, if that reviewer don't like the album, please he should avoid to write about it.
 
No he should not avoid, everyone can write what he want about!

But with a good use of words. Like we want about the prog music.

For example i do not like Messugah, i respect thqat band but i never dare to wrtie a review of a band that i do not like his music.

I don't like Metal, which is why I don't review Metal, out of the same respect you mention, I agree! But here we're not talking about a genre or a style, we're not talking about music in which the reviewer doesn't find himself, so to respond with anger and bashing to that music, we're talking about an album, and I get a feeling that Joey liked Tarkus, for example, while not Trilogy.

 

As i said before, in his place i did not waste my time to write a Sh++ty review.


 
it's common sense after all.
 
I preferred to write good well crafted reviews of band and albums that i like, that SH***ty reviews of bands or albums that i do not like in the first place.
 
Here we can check Joey's full amount of reviews, he has reviewed a lot and from his favourites down to albums he liked less. Nothing wrong!

 

it's a matter of taste after allWink

And by the way i did not like his reviewing style for me it's a very poor one.
 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ricochet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 15:28
Originally posted by zafreth zafreth wrote:

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Originally posted by zafreth zafreth wrote:

 
High Quality yes, no one says Joey's review is flawless or the best ever, but neither the opposite, IMO. Arguments exists.
Poorish argument IMO

Better than the "poorishest" "OMG it sucks, sucks, sucks, SUCKS, sucks, sucks..." Wink

---
 
No he should not avoid, everyone can write what he want about!

But with a good use of words. Like we want about the prog music.

I think you're stuck on those two strong words "rubbish" and "masturbated". He said much better what he doesn't like.

---

I don't like Metal, which is why I don't review Metal, out of the same respect you mention, I agree! But here we're not talking about a genre or a style, we're not talking about music in which the reviewer doesn't find himself, so to respond with anger and bashing to that music, we're talking about an album, and I get a feeling that Joey liked Tarkus, for example, while not Trilogy.

As i said before, in his place i did not waste my time to write a Sh++ty review.

"In his place" is already subjective from you, and we know objective doesn't mean what "YOU" want it to mean. Wink The review is not Sh++ty, it just has an extreme edge.

---
 
Here we can check Joey's full amount of reviews, he has reviewed a lot and from his favourites down to albums he liked less. Nothing wrong!

it's a matter of taste after allWink

And by the way i did not like his reviewing style for me it's a very poor one.
 
we're getting subjective again. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberto Muñoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 15:35
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Originally posted by zafreth zafreth wrote:

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Originally posted by zafreth zafreth wrote:

 
High Quality yes, no one says Joey's review is flawless or the best ever, but neither the opposite, IMO. Arguments exists.
Poorish argument IMO

Better than the "poorishest" "OMG it sucks, sucks, sucks, SUCKS, sucks, sucks..." Wink

 

And better not to write at all, in my "subjective point of view"Wink



---
 
No he should not avoid, everyone can write what he want about!

But with a good use of words. Like we want about the prog music.

I think you're stuck on those two strong words "rubbish" and "masturbated". He said much better what he doesn't like.

preffer "doesn't like" rough words can deteriorate a great review



---

I don't like Metal, which is why I don't review Metal, out of the same respect you mention, I agree! But here we're not talking about a genre or a style, we're not talking about music in which the reviewer doesn't find himself, so to respond with anger and bashing to that music, we're talking about an album, and I get a feeling that Joey liked Tarkus, for example, while not Trilogy.

As i said before, in his place i did not waste my time to write a Sh++ty review.

"In his place" is already subjective from you, and we know objective doesn't mean what "YOU" want it to mean. Wink The review is not Sh++ty, it just has an extreme edge.

 
Yeah i'm subjective in this matter, but my opinion stands.
 
---
 
Here we can check Joey's full amount of reviews, he has reviewed a lot and from his favourites down to albums he liked less. Nothing wrong!

it's a matter of taste after allWink

And by the way i did not like his reviewing style for me it's a very poor one.
 
we're getting subjective again. Wink

 

Of course, i can't see with that review a fair point of view of that album, objetive is not what define that review in the first place.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crimson87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 17:14

But my complaint is that the guy's review is 10 times more weighted than mine so he can bring the albums rating quite easily.

Besides is Trilogy THAT bad?.One stars ratings should be given to compilations EP's and bootlegs in my opinion.
If I happen to make a review of his beloved band Opeth saying that I don't like the growling vocals and that their music is not progressive by any means. (including "technical" arguments like he did) what would you do?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberto Muñoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 17:41
Originally posted by crimson87 crimson87 wrote:

But my complaint is that the guy's review is 10 times more weighted than mine so he can bring the albums rating quite easily.

crimson 87 ,the guy's review is a poor one written to my eyes, i think that ignoring that review is the most safe solution.
 
Besides is Trilogy THAT bad?.One stars ratings should be given to compilations EP's and bootlegs in my opinion.
 
If he rank one star a truly memorable album, what can i expect of others...
Giving JT Aqualung two stars....
Giving Genesis Foxtrox Two stars...
 
 
If I happen to make a review of his beloved band Opeth saying that I don't like the growling vocals and that their music is not progressive by any means. (including "technical" arguments like he did) what would you do?




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crimson87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 17:47
What's he doing on this site if he gives Foxtrot 2 stars? It's like a nazi on the gay pride day!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Queen By-Tor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 17:50
so his tastes aren't the same as yours, it doesn't really matter. Even if his vote counts for 10 there's several hundred normal members and collabs who are ranking the albums high. People don't all have to think the same thing - that would be more nazi-ish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TGM: Orb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 18:04
Just on that review... I got absolutely no impression of why he didn't like the album, or even that he'd bothered listening to it (no songwriting?!). Nonetheless, he's consistently very harsh on things he doesn't like, and I think that when we start putting a quality cut-off on reviews, it gets too messy to bother. Fine with it staying, even if I don't think it's great.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 18:18
Originally posted by crimson87 crimson87 wrote:

What's he doing on this site if he gives Foxtrot 2 stars? It's like a nazi on the gay pride day!


Like Ernst Röhm.
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