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Topic ClosedThe Stranglers???
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Poll Question: Are the Stranglers Eligible for this sight as a classic progger?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
11 [25.58%]
7 [16.28%]
25 [58.14%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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Ripples View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 15 2008 at 16:16
Calling all Stranglers fans, in the era 77-84, Peak times.
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Points: 66264 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2008 at 16:20
I'm not familiar with The Stranglers but I did a search and see that they have been suggested numerous times for inclusion.   If this link works right http://www.progarchives.com/forum/search_results_posts.asp?SearchID=20080915161844&KW=stranglers  you might want to check out some of these threads and for those that haven't been closed add your 2 cents. 
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Points: 6673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2008 at 18:29
Before Ultravox, Magazine, This Mortal Coil  or John Foxx , among a few others? Let us not confuse keyboardist Dave Greenfield with Dave Greenslade, OK? Burnel had a rumbling bass, the drumming okay but Cornwell was not exactly a masterful guitarist IMHO. Love them though,  Feline and Aural Sculpture were great albums.  
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Points: 628 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2008 at 20:10
Absolutely great new wave/punk band....great musicians...great songwriting but not prog...they may have been influenced by prog or classical music but not a prog band. Still one of my favorite new wave/punk bands of all time though.
My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head.
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Points: 359 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2008 at 20:18
I'm a huge Stranglers fan...but why here?
Prog fan since 1974.
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Points: 699 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2008 at 21:34
One only need listen to "Aural Sculpture" to feel the prog... This was a very clever band.
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024
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Points: 9669 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2008 at 22:46
PinchSame old sh*t -- different pile. Dead
 (Old topic -- buried but regrettably not laid to rest.)
 
I'm a big, long-term Stranglers fan, (I have 6 albums) but they're not even close to (what I consider) a prog band. Thumbs%20Down
 
"Clever" does not mean prog rock, nor does making good, "above-average" (IMO) music.
 
A little rock history for those who weren't there: The Stranglers were part of the music scene that reacted against prog (and thankfully, booted disco off the radio). They were part of something new (notice I didn't say "progressive," as prog is not defined by the dictionary) -- they were not a continuation of the old prog scene.
 
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, If they were included here, it would open up a huge can of worms, and there would soon be (very hard to resist) calls for the inclusion of many more punk/new wave acts from that era.
 
 
********************************************************************************************************************
 
Stern%20Smile I'm sorry to say this, and I mean no offense, but the root of the problem with these never-ending calls for unusual, controversial, polarizing additions is that many of those making such calls are too young to have been music fans when prog rock emerged, are driven by a mere strong liking for a particular band, and/or are hung up on a literal, dictionary definition of "progressive." (You want to review Stranglers albums? Do it elsewhere.)
 
Yet again, we see just how inadequate, outdated and all but downright useless "prog" and "progressive" are as meaningful terms to classify living music. "Prog" is not a genre -- it was basically a relatively brief musical movement, when some rock acts, for the first time, incorporated huge influences from classical and jazz.  (As such, it's over.)  In terms of describing more recent music, it best applies to bands which hearken back to the sound of those old prog rock originators -- in other words, to bands which are not "progressive," per se, but regressive, in that they are not making a new sound.
 
The problem is our word -- it means too little, but also way too much -- by ever widening the umbrella of inclusion, we have stretched it beyond the breaking point, beyond all credibility, beyond all easy understanding, beyond all utility, to the point that none of us knows what the other means when we say "prog."
 
Call me narrow minded, conservative, exclusionary, or some sort of elitist, but I just don't think Yes, Genesis, VDGG, Gentle Giant and ELP, etc, belong on the same playlist as Steely Dan, Fairport Convention, Iron Maiden and the Stranglers.
(Nor do those latter-named diverse acts belong together -- unless the common link is merely "music.")
 
This site has basically made "prog" mean "good" or "stuff some of us like."
 
It never ends, and never will end because we need a new word.
 
 
 
Or several of them....
 
 
 
 
So that's a huge NO!!! from me.


Edited by Peter - September 15 2008 at 23:31
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Points: 2614 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2008 at 22:51
Was a good band, but not a prog band.
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Points: 699 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2008 at 23:00
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

Once again, we see just how inadequate, outdated and all but useless "prog" and "progressive" are as meaningful terms to classify music. 
 
It never ends, and never will end because we need a new word.
 
 
 
 
I nominate the word CLEVER.
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024
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Points: 9669 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2008 at 23:25
Originally posted by Valdez Valdez wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

Once again, we see just how inadequate, outdated and all but useless "prog" and "progressive" are as meaningful terms to classify music. 
 
It never ends, and never will end because we need a new word.
 
 
 
 
I nominate the word CLEVER.
^ Which basically equates to "good," "above average" or simply "stuff I like" -- very subjective (personal) concepts. Ermm
 
Beyond its historical context, does "prog rock" even exist, as something defined or delineated which we can point to, or even come close to agreeing upon?
 
 I don't see this identity problem with rock, disco, country, classical, jazz, reggae, ska, hip hop, metal, folk, etc, because those are actual genres, which you'll find in radio stations, magazines and record stores. They aren't simply subjective value judgements, or a means for misty-eyed, wishful fans who seek to "reward" their favourite bands via inclusion in some amorphous, elitist "club" -- thereby validating their own diverse musical tastes.
 
It's the old "Hmmmm... I'm a prog fan, so if I like it, it must be prog'" line of (invalid) reasoning. It does not follow! Stern%20Smile
 
Let's see... I like the Ramones, and Lyle Lovett and Dwight Yoakam , I think they're better than most of their ilk, therefore "clever" (clever me), ergo they must be "prog punk" and "prog country" and ripe for inclusion here....Wacko


Edited by Peter - September 15 2008 at 23:39
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O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
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Points: 20030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2008 at 07:53
What Peter said.
 
I like them, but I've never heard them described as a prog band.
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Points: 14693 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2008 at 08:16
Personally - alway liked them, never saw them as a punk band; I've said it before & I'll say it again, they struck me more like The Doors with attitude & I maintain they hung on to 'Punk' (hawk, spit) as a flag of commercial convenience.

There is in my opinion a very small argument for their inclusion, but not enough.

Love them as I do - a "no" from me too.

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Points: 88 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2008 at 10:22
The album "The Raven" has numerous songs on it that take Genesis Prog to the next level. A good argument to vote them in.

I would say the keyboards through out the 77-84 period are extremely proggy a la Genesis, Yes, etc.. Besides Split Enz and Bowie are on the sight here!



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Points: 20030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2008 at 11:25
Where's the connection between Split Enz, David Bowie and The Stranglers on this site?
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2008 at 13:04
"Golden Brown" is in 11/4 and features a harpsichord. QED.
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2008 at 14:18

The Stranglers - wonderfully inventive and clever tunes, great instrumentation and intelligent song-writing. The whole suite of albums from No More Heroes through to Dreamtime reveal a band who never stood still and were unafraid to enter new territory, showing the world how far you could go with Rock without crossing over into Prog. (Which I believe they purposely avoided)

I love them for what they are - a brilliant rock band, great on album and even better seen live.
 
The General Music Discussion section in the forum is a great place for listing, discussing and reviewing non-Prog bands that we like without getting embroiled in 'Are they Prog' debates.
 
What?
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2008 at 14:21
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

"Golden Brown" is in 11/4 and features a harpsichord. QED.
I thought it was 13/4 (waltz, waltz, waltz, common-time...), but I'm crap at counting beats. Embarrassed
What?
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Points: 4312 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2008 at 14:33
Metallica the other day,,,,,the Stranglers now...................maybe the Sex Pistols tomorrowPinchPinch
 
Where is the ''prog'' with the stranglers??/Wacko
 
I think it's time for Progarchives to decide if they want keep the prog route or become ''rockarchives'' ''metalarchives'' or i don' t know what else.
 
A lot of the last inclusions don't even border on ''prog'' but as it seems everybody has their own definition of the prog word, debates will never end.
 
 
. 


Edited by febus - September 17 2008 at 11:59
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2008 at 04:11
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

"Golden Brown" is in 11/4 and features a harpsichord. QED.
I thought it was 13/4 (waltz, waltz, waltz, common-time...), but I'm crap at counting beats. Embarrassed
 
It is and you're obviously not - that was a typo... Embarrassed
 
Originally posted by febus febus wrote:

Metallica the other day,,,,,the Stranglers now...................maybe the Sex Pistols tomorrowPinchPinch
 
Did you know that John Lydon is a Hammill fan (and was at the time of the Pistols), and the musicians on the Pistol's first album were Prog session musicians?
 
Originally posted by febus febus wrote:

Where is the ''prog'' with the stranglers??/Wacko
 
I suggest listening to all their albums, one after the other - there are a lot of them, so it will take you a while, but then you'll be better informed Smile
 
Originally posted by febus febus wrote:

I think it's time for Progarchives to decide if they want keep the prog route or become ''rockarchives'' ''metalarchives'' or i don' t know what else.
 
Why? Because you don't agree with some of the decisions - or discussions?
Originally posted by febus febus wrote:

A lot of the last inclusions don't even border on ''prog'' but as it seems everybody has their own definition of the prog word, debates will never end.
 
Everybody has their own definition - they always have done and always will do.
 
That is part of the irreconcilable nature of Prog, I'm afraid - you can't say that it can be anything, then turn around and say "But not that..." (as some do - I'm not suggesting that this is your definition, which is probably different to mine, which... yaddayaddayadda).
 


Edited by Certif1ed - September 17 2008 at 04:12
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Points: 10261 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2008 at 10:11
For Jean and me it is no question at all that the Stranglers are prog; we suggested them long ago. They often use real polyphony for their compositions, a very advanced composing technique which is rare even among prog bands. They had been branded "punk" by the music industry for business reasons, but anyone who has ears and listens closely will quickly realize that this was plain nonsense. An album like "Black and White" definitely is a prog album.
Professor Tibor Kneif, who is (or more likely was) a musicologist at the FU (Freie Universität) Berlin mentions them in his book "Sachlexikon der Rockmusik" ("Lexicon of rock music terms") and is also of the opinion that the label "Punk" was put on them wrongly because their music is by far too complex for that.


Edited by BaldFriede - September 17 2008 at 11:32


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