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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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I would say that Sounds was the foremost supporter of Punk from 76 through to 78 with Jon Savage and Jane Suck being their leading 'punk' writers (NME recruited Tony Parsons and Julie Burchill in response to them, advertising for "hip, young gunslingers" to apply as new writers), Gary Bushil, Phil Sutcliffe and Caroline Coon (allegedly the subject of The Stranglers' London Lady) also wrote about Punk for Sounds during that period. Wikipedia ( ![]() Edited by Dean - August 08 2008 at 20:13 |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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It is a common misconception that Prog was arena-rock - very very few Prog bands could fill a stadium back then (Floyd, Genesis, ELP, Yes...). The majority of Prog acts worked the same circuit as any other bands: Universities and small venues, and none of them put on big extravagent shows.
Here is an archive of my "local" music venue http://www.aylesburyfriars.co.uk/index.html which played host to several Genesis concerts as well as being the club where Marillion were formed - check out the Phase 3 gigs and notice the gradual change in artists from Prog to Punk to New Wave. For example 1979 shows Peter Gabriel one week and The Banshees the next (I was at both gigs
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Scratchy ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: October 16 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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Thanks for reply Dean - very informative.
Did large stadium events actually decline in the peak punk era? ( my perception )
Were the BIG prog groups forced to perform in smaller venues due to the fact that large arena events had become unpopular?
Why do you think that genuine progressive groups didn't keep coming through between the '76 - '79 period at least ?(personally I believe there was a potential market for them) - the shelf life of these BIG Prog groups was at least on the decrease but what happened to the new Prog groups that should have & could have come through.Lack of genuine music ability or lack of promotion?
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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On the contrary, the stadium events grew bigger - the hey-day of stadium rock was in the 80s with bands like Heart, Asia, KISS, Bon Jovi etc. Prog was a minor part of that before, during and after - the real stadium acts of the 70s were bands like Queen, Boston, Zepp and the Stones.
Bands like Camel, Caravan, Gentle Giant, Gong, Hawkwind, VdGG, Renaissance etc never played big venues.
Prog didn't die in 1979 and rise from the ashes as Neo in 1984 - it was a gradual transition that started (probably) as early as 1978 with bands like Twelfth Night
There were a number of up and coming Prog bands from 76 - 79 ... for example The Enid, LaHost, Marillion, Pendragon and After The Fire; and several Art Rock acts too such as Wire, Japan and Ultravox! who later bridged the gap between Prog and New Wave. Many of the bands that were Prog in the mid 70s just fell apart through natural causes and the members went on to other things (for example Psyche Prog band Second Hand became Xover Prog (synth-pop-symphonic) Seventh Wave).
I don't think lack of talent or music ability was the issue, it's just that many of the young musicians who would have formed Prog bands in the 80s were just as prone to "peer-pressure" as the record buying public was and followed fashion and chose the course that would give them a better chance of sucsess... I think this is evident from the "New Wave" musicians who have since done Prog or Prog-related things.
/edit: in terms of Stadium events - the Knebworth festivals of 1978 drew audiences of 60,000 (Genesis, Jefferson Starship, Tom Petty & Devo) and 45,000 (Frank Zappa, The Tubes, Peter Gabriel, The Boomtown Rats, Nick Lowe & Dave Edmunds) - the following year Zepp drew 200,000 over 2 days. Edited by Dean - August 08 2008 at 21:50 |
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debrewguy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3596 |
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Please, Please Please .... I'm trying to ween myself off of meaningless thread.
Alas,here goes again . Music genres, as fads and trends do, have their peaks and valleys. Just as Dolly Parton has ![]() Insert the following - punk/metal/country/dance - all have a heyday, a "dark side of the moon' commerccial success- wise" , and a revival. Why ? Mostly , because any musical form found entertaining (oh god, we can't let people enjoy their music, eh) will eventually find a new(er) audience. This is not a bad thing. Some new acts will advance the form, many will add to it, and others will either cash in, or just go along for the ride (no disrespect meant). End result - the genres that people like go on. Which is good. If you like Prog, cause it is still a scene that brings up new bands, keeps older acts coming out with new releases; and best of all ... shows up as an influence in other types of music, so as to not to allow itself to become stale and reliant on fumes to keep it going. Or, if you really are adamant that punk killed prog (Sado are we, maso are you ) - Never Mind the Bollocks killed everything else. Apart from Eddie Eastman in the Canadian Urban Cowboy 80s scene. Whaaaaaa ???????????????? |
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Philéas ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: June 14 2006 Status: Offline Points: 6419 |
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No way.
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peskypesky ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 25 2005 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 359 |
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Maybe punk just pulled the plug on a style which had already started to commit suicide:
http://www.videos.es/reproductor/rickwakeman-guineverewembley1975-(CL9NJh_0oy4 |
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Prog fan since 1974.
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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Pulled the plug?
I believe it's alive and kicking yet, Roick Wakeman released more than 120 albums after that.
BTW: Blaming Rick for Arthur on ice is not being fully informed.
He had just had 2 heart attacks and informed he maybe should abandon performning, he wrote Myths and Legends in the hospital, so he was not in position to reject anything that was offered to him, when you probably will have to abandon your career at such young age, with a terrible contract with A&M, and with a family, you have to ensure them.
Rick had a contract on Wembley, but they also hired a show on ice, he was informed that he should use that stage or not play at all, he had to create that show in a couple of days, because he couldn't afford the luxury of leaving a contract.
So who can blame him?
Iván
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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^ I think that is also another prime example of Rick's mischievous sense of humour.
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J-Man ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: August 07 2008 Location: Philadelphia,PA Status: Offline Points: 7826 |
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Thank god punk isn't big in my area
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Baggiesfaninuk ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: March 19 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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There seems to be a popular misconception that Punk evolved due to the excesses of Prog. I disagree.
Punk was around for a long time prior to hitting the big time in the mid-70s. And it was largely born in the US during the mid to late 60s. The reason it got big in 76-77 was the simple fact that the public demanded it. There was media hype - music critics were excited by a fresh sound and pushed it down the throats of the impressionable (working classes / unemployed masses). Prog had been anathema to them due to its university / classical / educated background just as Punk was anathema to the middle classes for whom Prog provided an epiphany. Punk didn't kill Punk and Punk isn't dead either. Punk drove Prog away from the airwaves for a while but it provided the ideal chance for Prog to take a deep breath and a long hard look. Punk was a sharp cold blast, but it too has evolved. In fact, in some circles, Prog and Punk have merged to great effect. Cardiacs are a fine example, but also groups such as Coheed and Cambria, Amplifier and Mars Volta show influences of both. For Prog to truly remain Prog, it should evolve. Punk helped Prog to do this. And just like Prog was driven beneath the surface for a time, so was Punk. But it hasn't gone away; it evolved through New Wave; New Romantics emerged concurrently and so the musical soup continued to be stirred by new styles, emotions and eras. For Punk was not just about the music, but more about a style, an ethic and a way of life. |
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My father was a beekeeper before me; his father was a beekeeper. I want to follow in their footsteps. And their footsteps were like this. (Runs screaming) "AAAAAAAH! I'm covered in beeeeees!" - Izzard
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Yorkie X ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 04 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1049 |
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Slartibartfast ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
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You forgot about the sticking safety pins through your cheek thing. ![]() |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Philip ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: June 13 2007 Location: Porto, Portugal Status: Offline Points: 413 |
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Here in Portugal, new thing in music always appeared later, due to the "Estado Novo" period, the dictastorship.
But the Punk movement wasn't very popular. Genesis concerts in Cascais in 1975 were the most popular musical events until that time. And progressive rock was very popular, particularly when, outside Portugal, the punk was reigning, in the second half of the seventies. After that, prog was killed, but punk didn't appeared as it happened in the other countries. Tantra performed a sold out show in Coliseu dos Recreios, Lisbon in 1977, in the year they released "Mistérios e Maravilhas", and they were the first portuguese rock band to give a concert that was sold out on that venue. An equally praised and popular tour through the country followed. And year later, in 1978, they repeated the formula both in Lisbon and in the whole country, this time with "Holocausto".
Prog was decadent in the other countries by this time, but in Portugal it was so alive as it had been some years before in other countries. Tantra were, no doubt, one of the most popular bands here, but they disappeared too, to the point they are not very much remembered nowadays, but that fall was not responsability of punk.
Option two.
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