So punk killed the prog did it ?

mithrandir wrote: seems like a variation on this same topic pops up about once every 2 weeks here, what's the obsession folks?

True that  ...  Next time I will do a Dream Theater or Rush poll I promise 

To some extent prog did survive the impact of punk and its own commercialization (remember Genesis or Owner of A Lonely Heart or Asia) and in 80s almost every great band of the 70s had its well-appreciated come back (Yes, ABWH, Pink Floyd, Genesis) and neoprog was really strong these days (at least Marillion with Fish)... but then it vanished - came the grunge, the hip hop and suddenly all the music from the 70s became 'oldies' - maybe these are the times when the myth of pure punk killing the corrupted prog came into existence?

It's funny how we love to talk about how "punk killed prog"... it may have or have not killed its mainstream appeal.... but killed it? What are we then? Necrophiliacs????

very true David. Have some clappies.. 

A B Negative wrote: In the same way that people who are not Prog afficionados believe Prog doesn't exist any more. The difference is that in some form I also follow the information about both genres, there are more than 100 Festivals exclusively for Prog, Punk is playing mostly in similar Festivals as Lollapallooza, in which the share the stage with Alternative, Indie, Country, Singer Song Weitting, Punk (A dilluted form of Punk), etc, etc,. etc.plus McDonalds, Burgers King, etc. Ptog is getting more and more commercial (in the good sense that some bands are having success), while any derivative form of Punk is getting more and more underground.   As you've obviously heard every Punk band, I bow to your superior knowledge of Punk lyrics. Of course not, but there are general terms, Punk was maninly anatchist, and for what I heard (And is in a decent amount) and read about (Which is more), all of it is ranting. As you've already said Punk didn't make it to Peru in the first place so it must seem dead... If I ever learn to play more complicated music than Punk, I'll make that change!   Never said it didn't reached Perú absolutely, I said it wasn't massive, but there were some bands like Sociedad de Mierda (Sh!t Society), Anarquía (Anarquism) and the most iconic band Leusemia (Badly written because it's Leucemia) who sold 10,000 copies (Gold record in Perú, because they gave the album with a newspaper as bonus) is called A la Mierda con lo Demás (To the sh*t with the rest).   The own director of one of this bands told me most guys of the Punk scenario, left Punk when they learned to play, now you can visit his site LEUSEMIA (The authors of A la Mierda lo Demás and the only relatively successful Punk band here, the ones who hated everybody) and today it says "Official Progressive Website  http://www.leusemia.com/home.html they claim Sex Pistols Roxy Music, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones and Pink Floyd as influences   Prog is alive and growing. So is Punk. Tell me how many commercial Punk bands in the line of the founders of the genre (lets say The Pistols) are appearing now, I'm sure they are very few, because Punk dilluted itself in the late 70's. If you knew the amount of albums this site receives every month, you'd be surprised, and all from bands that are commercially able to at least survive.   Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 20 2008 at 08:04

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: I honestly believe Punk is dead and buried,. ony survives in small circles of young kids who play Punk because it's easy, but when they learn, they change to other genres.   Prog is alive and growing, Punk is vanishing completely.   Iván

when I see people talk about Punk around here I can only assume they got their insight from some VH1 special, makes me want to stab my eyes out with a pencil, strangely enough I can find literally hundreds of bands on the ProgArchives that come from a Punk/Hardcore lineage (and have gone on to either broaden the scope of Punk, or have  moved  on to play other musics while still retaining the ethics/politics/aesthetic/DIY-tactics they learned from Punk)

can't people just accept the fact that there has been so much cross pollination of genres over the past 30 years it becomes quite silly to talk music in such B/W terms anymore?

Two points:

Anyone else seen SLC Punk? It kinda makes me laugh. Anarchist punks love to form half-baked philosophies that aren't coherent or viable. Sure there are probably punk bands out there whose lyrics don't sound like rantings of a half-retarded high school dropout, but the majority slams the see-saw into the ground, flinging the small group of smart punk bands into the stratosphere.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: [QUOTE=mithrandir]   I never see VH1 or care about it, I get my information from reliable sources and personal experience, if you want to listen that Punk wasgreat and will last for eternity, it's not truth. Truth Punk was ephemerous, before a year they were blending with mainstream to create that hybrid called New Age.   After that, you could expect anything, the great acts they criticized so much, were being assumed by them, go to Punk 77 ad they say that Glam was the worst tragedy after Prog but sooon Blondie and Missing Persons were doing exactly that glam and calling themmselves Punk with the acceptance of the Punk experts.   They can't blend with Prog and maitain the original politic or ethic of Punk, that's a natural contradiction. Elaborate music, longer than 3 minutes, with complex changes goes against anything what Punk represents, in the moment they blend with a genre that bases it's existence in exactly everything they hated, they become a hybrid that no longer can be called Punk. They may come from the original lineage, butthey are no longer a natural sub-product of Punk, the something totally different.

you have a mindset of Punk and its mainstream impact, Im talking in its entirety, you make it seem like Punk started with THe Sex Pistols and for a long time there was nothing........until the Nirvana! How naive can one be?  ever hear of Black Flag, the Minutemen, Swell Maps, Pere Ubu, Family Fodder, Axegrinder, Man Is the b*****d, Boredoms, Ruins, Fugazi, Racebannon, Neurosis, Sun City Girls, etc?...all bands IMO that have pushed the boundaries of Punk, yes many of these bands are tight and complex and have songs longer than 3 mins (and still claim to be just a Punk or Hardcore band), but thats just a few examples...so Im not sure what you're talking about and Im kind of making a wasted point if all you're going to argue is Punk = Sex Pistols and nothing more

One of the really interesting things about this issue is how the rise, fall and evolution of punk parallels that of prog. From three-chord garage bands in the early 60's, through Iggy Pop, MC5 and The Who (as much, if not more, proto-punk as proto-prog), there's as much history to punk rock as there is to progressive rock. The term was used by music critics as early as 1970, a full six years before the apogee of the genre (again similar to prog). The genre enjoyed a relatively short golden era, just as prog did - though shorter.

Pretty soon its critics claimed it died (just as critics claim prog died), but in reality it became another genre of rock, no longer in the limelight but still very much alive. Hardcore and New Wave evolved from 'classic' punk, the latter tying melodic and mainstream sensibilities to the genre a la neo-prog, and post-punk (my particular favourite) emerged in the early 1980s. Today punk is very much alive through bands as diverse as Green Day (pop-punk), Yellowcard, Good Charlotte - bands many fans from the 'classic' mid-70s period might not call punk, but they are as true to the pioneering late 60s and early 70s sound as the Sex Pistols ever were. The punk community even has arguments like ours - Green Day and even The Ramones supposedly became commercial, 'selling out' for the money (god forbid we ever think the Sex Pistols did anything for money!), in just the same way and with as much passion as many proggers think Genesis sold out in the late 70s.

Punk Rock is a vibrant genre that keeps itself alive through the dedication of its fans (including websites similar to this one), and the continual willingness of musicians everywhere to take a sound they love and experiment with it. Punk isn't dead and neither is prog. One didn't kill the other, despite a few paranoid media claims to the contrary. In fact, such musical evolution keeps people in love with popular music (I mean the wider term, not just 'pop'). Without punk and other developments, the world would have lost interest in rock and moved on to something else. Rather than killing prog, punk and the like kept rock alive.