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zinta 
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Joined: May 09 2008
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 Topic: Anyone knows any rock guitar lessons available onl
Posted: May 09 2008 at 01:25 |
Hi, I want to learn to play rock guitar but the
difficulty is that it’s not possible for me to take private lessons on this and
I am thinking of taking online lessons for this. Can anyone suggest me a good
source where I can get the needed stuff for a beginner and help me further on
to make a better rock guitar player?
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: May 09 2008 at 07:41 |
Speaking as someone who often posts silly, that's a really good question, that I'm afraid I can't help you with. I've been playing guitar casually for many year. I've tried books, had a set of lessons with a teacher, there's also video/DVD and "on demand" (cable) lessons out there. I've had my most fun playing something recorded and imitating or improvising along with it. But I'm thinking you should really aspire to be a prog rock guitar player rather than a run of the mill rock guitar player. 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Certif1ed
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Posted: May 09 2008 at 08:30 |
"Needed stuff for a beginner"(Cert's top 10);
1. Guitar. The first guitar doesn't matter too much - you'll soon learn its limitations, as there is no "cheap", only tat and better guitars. Upgrade as soon as you know what you want from a guitar, ensuring that you track down a guitar that fulfils YOUR criteria. This takes time, especially in guitar shops, as you play lots of instruments on the hunt for the one that speaks to you. This instrument will stay with you for a long time.
2. Patience - and LOTS of it. If playing a bum note makes you frustrated and want to impersonate Pete Townsend, remember that an instrument in pieces is not so nice to play. Chances are, too, that you are neither Pete Townsend nor Mozart, and you will not be able to play "Satch Boogie" the first time you pick the instrument up. It's not shameful to start with "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" - it was good enough for Mozart (actually, that's an urban myth, but you get my point).
3. At least 1 hour per day, every day, in which to practice. If you wanna be the best, if you wanna beat the rest, uh-huh-huh, dedication's what you need (Obscure 1970s UK TV series reference alert!).
4. Metronome. Believe it or not, you cannot count accurately. But a metronome can - and I'm not talking about a very small person on the Paris underground.
5. Tuner. Not the fish. Unless you're incredibly lucky (like me!) and have perfect pitch, then you won't get that axe in tune properly, no matter how you try. If you get a tuner and the guitar still won't stay in tune as you play it, take it to a professional luthier to set up. If he can't fix it, then you've bought the very cheapest Korean guitar you could, haven't you? Back to the shop and buy a REAL guitar...
6. Spend some time at the start of each session ensuring that the guitar is in tune, listening closely to how the strings interact with each other. This will develop your sense of pitch and pitch relation. If you find that you do have perfect pitch, don't be put off by slight intonation issues, or impure "beating" of perfect intervals - a guitar is tuned using Equal Temperament, on account of it's evenly spaced frets, so no guitar is ever perfectly in tune... except special ones that don't have equally spaced frets - but we won't go there.
7. Simple excercises to warm up - I'd suggest the dreaded quasi-chromatics. Spend at least 15 minutes playing chromatic scales (30 is better), concentrating on accuracy and tone rather than speed - but use a metronome to help your timekeeping.
The most basic quasi-chromatic scale you can play involves fretting a note on the top string (of the guitar, not in the sense of the highest-note string) with your first finger (that's NOT your thumb, by the way), then playing the next note on the next fret up the neck with your second finger - and so on, until you run out of fingers. You then start over on the next string up and keep going until you run out of strings. Here's the good bit. You then shift your 4th finger up a fret from where you just left off, and do the same thing but backwards, so you end up a fret up from where you started on the top string again.
All the time you need to concentrate on making this accurately in time, giving each note a good tone with no nasty buzzes, smoothly going from one string to another - and not getting all confused when you come back down again.
8. Learn scales (and arpeggios) other than chromatics. Again, accuracy and tone are the most important aspects. There are a zillion websites that list scales. Good ones to start with are the major and minor pentatonic scales, and the major and minor diatonic scales (harmonic major and minor and melodic minor).
Those 5 are the most important scales you'll ever learn, and the next most useful is the major Iocrian or whole tone scale. On a guitar, that only means 7 different scales to learn (including the true chromatic), so no excuses for not learning all of them. On a piano, it's harder, as the ordering of black and white notes differs with every key, so you effectively have 62 different scales to learn - and don['t get me started on arpeggios and scales in 3rds, 6ths and so on.
9. Choose one or two simple pieces to learn, and learn them slowly - bar by bar if necessary, concentrating on, yes, you guessed it, accuracy and tone.
Oh, and the notes themselves are rather important - not only do you need to play the right notes for the melodies and accompaniment, but there's stuff called expression. This ranges from playing quietly or loudly, to accenting notes, to joining groups of notes into phrases, etc. in order to bring out the character in the music, and turn it from learned notes into a mysterious language that conveys a well-told story. Never underestimate the importance of dynamics and phrasing. Form is one of the most important basic elements of music, and most theory tutors skim right over it.
10. Learn music theory (this doesn't come inside your practice sessions, but is hugely helpful in learning any instrument - and you can do this online), theory of guitar playing (how to pick the strings, how to fret notes, tricks like hammering on and pulling off, etc), and theory of how a guitar is made - this latter will help you understand the instrument you are learning.
I think that should keep you busy for a week or two...
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Petrovsk Mizinski
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Posted: May 09 2008 at 08:45 |
Cert really got it there and those are things I recommend to beginners too.
One thing that rarely gets a mention, but is something worth mentioning, is that a truly motivated played will not make excuses for things that stop them from doing a certain thing from achieving your musical goals.
I'm extremely serious about music (not about myself though  ) and so is Cert, but it would be good to know what your musical goals. Some people may argue, that can't get lessons, don't have the money etc etc, but those with the drive and passion are inevitably going to find a way to be able to get the resources to help them on the road to being a great musician, and while of course I don't know what your current situation is, and maybe you serious cannot get lessons for one reason or another. It's not really natural talent, but it's the hard work, the drive to suceed that will put you head and shoulders above the competition.
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chopper
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Posted: May 09 2008 at 10:42 |
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I don't know about web lessons but there are software packages around with tutor videos on CDs that are quite good.
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Passionist
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Posted: May 09 2008 at 16:18 |
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Well quite frankly Cert's list would have made me quit immediately. Becoming a guitarist is not about concuring the world. If you want to play, play, if you want to play good, play more. Most people just get around the guitar with picking some songs they'd want to be playing, most probably known ones. Then I'd suggest (I'm way past this, I hate doing this nowadays) getting a a program like GuitarPro, and studying some of these songs, how they go etc. Try Smoke on the Water for instance. A well known song that no-one wants to play just for that reason, but basically after the main riff you'll notice the song really brings out what's boring in most rock, the chords.
I think it's good to try out some songs here and there before doing your own, though not necessary at all. Get some distortion going and play a riff, that ought to make a rock song pretty soon :)
This from someone with several years of jazz guitar :P
Edited by Passionist - May 09 2008 at 16:18
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Petrovsk Mizinski
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Posted: May 10 2008 at 03:44 |
One other thing to note, is that sometimes being self taught can really bog you down, it hasn't really happened to me, but many other people I know. I know people that have been playing guitar for much longer than I have and have had guitar lessons too, yet despite being self taught myself, I still have superior technique than them, which truly is an indicator of how much motivation can truly push you along.
For a while, I had no idea what I wanted to learn next, and this happened for a while, but eventually it got to a good stage where I can confidently know what I want to learn next, and I now progress just as fast, if not even faster than some people that have guitar lessons.
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Certif1ed
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Posted: May 10 2008 at 12:16 |
 Passionist wrote:
Well quite frankly Cert's list would have made me quit immediately. Becoming a guitarist is not about concuring the world. If you want to play, play, if you want to play good, play more. Most people just get around the guitar with picking some songs they'd want to be playing, most probably known ones. Then I'd suggest (I'm way past this, I hate doing this nowadays) getting a a program like GuitarPro, and studying some of these songs, how they go etc. Try Smoke on the Water for instance. A well known song that no-one wants to play just for that reason, but basically after the main riff you'll notice the song really brings out what's boring in most rock, the chords.
I think it's good to try out some songs here and there before doing your own, though not necessary at all. Get some distortion going and play a riff, that ought to make a rock song pretty soon :)
This from someone with several years of jazz guitar :P
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It's not about conquering the world - those 10 items are simply really good things to do to improve everything about your playing and reduce the frustration that self-taught people often face - the brick walls when you feel you aren't writing anything new, or you've somehow burnt out.
Sure you can just stick with the small stuff - but most people want to move on, and if you start with all the basics instead of just one or two, then you have more choice more quickly.
As I said in another post, music is a language.
Not only does it communicate to anyone without any prior knowledge, but completely untutored people can also develop their own ways of using it.
You can always tell an untutored speaker of any language a mile off, if you're reasonably proficient... 
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Atavachron
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Posted: May 10 2008 at 17:16 |
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intonation is indeed crucial - even a bluesman like Hendrix insisted on being in tune, otherwise his cosmic adventures and improvisation would've sounded horrible - however, perfect intonation in rock is not always required and one may 'get away' with slight mis-tunings now and then (Keith Richards was known for his slightly 'off' tunings and frettings which gave the Stones their unique sound)... "close enough for rock'nroll", as they say, and developing your ear, even if you don't have perfect pitch, is important and you'll improve this by not using a tuner on occasion (though they are a God send sometimes)
what else, hmm.. scalular practice is great for athletic ability but don't foresake the sounds of your guitar; one great note, perfect phrase, trick or beautiful bit of feedback can be as satisfying as something technically demanding, i.e. Jeff Beck, Marty Barre, John Abercrombie all made their mark with a less-is-more approach
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Certif1ed
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Posted: May 11 2008 at 15:18 |
Depends what the intonation is with...
Off tunings are impossible to escape with an equal-tempered instrument. I've heard many live recordings of Hendrix where his guitar drifted desparately out of tune - and you could tell he was getting frustrated in his performance, as the improvs did, indeed, sound terrible.
Hendrix is also legendary for the sheer amount of practice he did - the point about learning scales and arpeggios is that you soon get the idea, and move on to practice chops in the same way; You find a solo idea you like, and play it up and down the instrument in different positions so that the lick becomes a "trademark" tool that you can simply slip in during improv.
This is a Prog Rock forum, not a blues or jazz forum - so precision in playing (as far as possible) and an untlimate aim of world-conquering is de rigeur. Improv is also vital - all the greatest "Classical" musicians in history were gifted improvisers - notably Bach, Mozart and Beethoven, who were absolute masters of the art. Practising scales need not kill your ability to improvise, if you also practise improvisation. This can be summed up thus;
If you are a player, then play.
Go back to the Prog greats and indentify the ones without some kind of training along the lines I listed, and you'll soon find the weaker 2nd and 3rd division bands.
Edited by Certif1ed - May 12 2008 at 02:51
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Atavachron
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Posted: May 12 2008 at 16:43 |
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I never said technique wasn't important - actually I found it the most challenging thing, so I ended up putting many more hours into scales and licks because it was most difficult, whereas the improv (or 'internal playing') I was better at - but prog rock forum or not, the thread starter says "I want to learn to play rock guitar", and learning rock guitar involves more than academics.. in fact that's one of the things that separate it from classical and even jazz.. some of the jazz cats at my music school had become so studied and facile on the neck, they'd forgotten how to, as you point out, "just play"
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Certif1ed
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Posted: May 12 2008 at 17:01 |
"More than academics"?
You mean different to - or at least, that's how it was when I was at college.
Jazz and rock was what we did in our spare time - it's when you completely forget everything you've learned and do it.
Naturally, being students, copious amounts of alcohol and suchlike were consumed to aid the forgetting process... I have heard of people finding that academic study trained the musical feeling out of them - but I have never actually met anyone that's happened to.
I think my last couple of posts were general - not aimed at yours. I must admit that The Passionist annoyed me a bit with the "just write" attitude.
Yes, that's the idea.
No, you can't do it without doing at least some spade work first.
Anyway,
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Atavachron
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Posted: May 12 2008 at 17:06 |
that's correct, it is different not necessarily 'more than'.. and I wish jazz had been what one did in their spare time at Musicians Institute, but unfortunately the emphasis was on jazz and in particular, the trad. academic jazz that would be commercially viable (studio work, etc.) ..not that I paid much attention to it, I wanted to be Eddie Van Halen not Joe Pass 
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Passionist
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Posted: May 12 2008 at 19:38 |
Certif1ed wrote:
I think my last couple of posts were general - not aimed at yours. I must admit that The Passionist annoyed me a bit with the "just write" attitude. Yes, that's the idea. No, you can't do it without doing at least some spade work first. Anyway, |
Haha, quite unintended. Hmm, how to express myself here. I'm not saying you shouldn't do everything. I guess what I'mr eferring to is the way I learned what I did. Basically getting the hang of the stick before starting to wonder why it does what it does. It's like maths in basics. You do + and - calculations without knowing why, then when you become an expert you'll notice what it's all worth. Now I see a huge difference here on how you start doing it. Of course you could specialise on the knowledge rather than the technique, that, or first become a great player and develope it into understanding too. I myself did it a bit daftly; I went basically froma complete beginner to someone who knew what he was doing, technuque-wise. You see, I knew a lot of things by name and could almost play them. After that I got sucked into the awesome world of guitar theory, which I nowadays treasure, but I can see it as a cornerstone for a lot of people. Kinda like computer games, which I also do with the AGS engine. There's sprites and backgrounds to be drawn, which is my favourite. This is the playing music side of the process. But then there's the thing about coding the stuff together and working. and this is the theory which some curse a lot. Coming back to the topic and my earlier post, I think it's just not really the best way of apporaching the issue to try to learn everything at the same time, no matter how slow you go. When I was teaching the guitar I often started with the common theory and realised I was losing students because they wanted to play songs. So I started first introducing them to songs, to the playing, and then I told them what these songs are based on. I thought it worked a lot better. Of course everything you say is essential, Cert, but my point lies where most people decide if the thing is for them or not. And I wouldn't give myself any too ambitious goals, even effort-wise in the beginning. I'd keep it very simple myself. I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear here. I really don't mean, that one should just pick up a guitar and become a rockstar without doing something about it and I value musicians who know what they're doing. And I can hear when someone has just got a guitar and is just writing stuff down with just ideas but no practical knowledge, and yes, it sounds a bit uncomplete. But don't get this wrong either  Oh, and thanks for the The there!
Edited by Passionist - May 12 2008 at 19:38
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Anyone knows any rock guitar lessons available onl
