Reviews discussion

M@X wrote: Mike, I never asked to write reviews and forcing them to be positive. I know what your thinking and please understand that I do the same. I never and never will asked for "bias" reviews. I asked for constructive reviews, not like the one we had to delete. It's an invitation , not a forced suggestion !

Fair enough ... but at least you should be very careful to avoid such misunderstandings ... and you should try to be consistent. There are tens of thousands of ratings without reviews in the database, most of them either 5 or 1 stars. Either remove them all and don't allow them, or remove none.

Mike the RwoR issue should be discussed elsewhere, I am open to your suggestion regarding this and others matters too.

That sounds good.  One user had the really good idea that prog(olivesand)chives should have an optional subscription service, maybe giving subscribers an extra forum or benefits, or something of that sort.

This is a very interesting discussion.

Yesterday, unaware of the controversy surrounding this album and not knowing about the deal struck between ProgArchives and the band, I reviewed the album. My review was, I believe, expert in that I have many years' experience in listening to and being involved in Christian music. The review was largely negative. It was prompted by the 'Featured Album' status.

Had I known in advance of the nature of the deal, I would perhaps have withheld my review until after the sponsorship ended (May) so as to avoid being lumped in with those negatively targeting this album (from whom I received unpleasant PMs yesterday after I posted my review). I am torn: I genuinely do not want to offend the site's owner, but I also believe my review was genuinely helpful to those considering acquiring this music.

What puzzles me most is the band wanting to remove negative reviews. As an author, I'm familiar with scathing reviews (my third book has a plethora of them on Amazon!) and I agree with Sean Trane: a well-written negative review is ALWAYS a good thing. At the least you are remembered! By all means remove the reviews that contravene ProgArchives' clear standards, but please allow other reviews to stand.

To M@X's credit, even in the midst of this controversy my negative 2-star review was not removed.

So his spelling is bad.  He states his opinion.  It's different from yours.  Deal with it.  

The problem about the Torman Marx thing is that I remember a couple of well-written negative reviews, I think one from a collaborator that disappeared.

The reviews were constructive and in detail explained why these particular reviewers did not enjoy the album. I am very disappointed that this website would fall in the trap of censorship.

Re : Torman Maxt - I downloaded it, listened to it, deleted it. IT sounded like something that Rush would not even have bothered to work through to the demo stage.
Which is OK.
The comment from Avalanchemaster seems to match his view on requiring a certain certified level of knowledge that would somehow impart weight to the reviewer's comments. The site is open to reviews as long as they meet the criteria listed. Intelligence, grammar, writing skills are not on the list. This is after all, a fan site, not an academic study.
And as for the removal of negative reviews on TM, well ... pooh on PA for doing so, Trane has it right on the effect, the perception of the site. Can you see an Ange fan deciding that PA must somehow be discarding adoring reviews of any of their albums ?
And if a band can't take negative reviews of their music, then it says a whole lot more about their EGO, and their lack of understanding of the way music works , i.e. music is made by musicians for music listeners. Ergo, music listeners are not required to listen to a musician's works just because of its' very existence.
And let's face it, if bad reviews and being hated by some people is such torture, how does the T feel about all the flak that Dream Theater faced over the years. Yet, they still remain a favourite among many PA members. Do Raga/Indo prog fans bemoan the low visibility of their subgenre ? Are the ZART crowd really put out by the fact that the rest of us don't get it ?
No, they just defend their opinions when the opportunity presents itself, make a case for those who might be interested in trying some RIO/Avant-Garde when they can, and generally give the impression that they are happy with what they have to be happy with. Meaning they like it, that's all. I.E. FANBOYS ACCEPTED !

So please M@x, c0me 0n 0ut and make a clear statement of intent as to how PA will proceed in the future. I have no problem with ads, whether or not they are prog or even music related (no porn please). But accepting what could be called "payola" is not a good sign.

^I think your inference that greed played any part in this is off base.  I doubt M@x will be in the Ferrari dealership due to this deal with TM.  There comes a time when all the hard work needs to be rewarded.  I have been running college football and basketball pools for years and get hundreds of entries.  After a few years of doing it for free, I figured out that I was working my butt off for nothing and started taking a cut off the top.  Nothing extravagant, but something to make it worth my while.  This website is awesome and a labor of love and there is no way the people who make it that way will ever get their just reward financially.  There was no doubt that certain people would fly the flag of absolute journalistic integrity and they certainly have the right to that opinion.  It's a tough call either way, but I won't begrudge someone getting a little something for a herculean effort. 

I'm sure this has been a learning experience for all and it will be handled better in the future.  But let's not proclaim the imminent death of the site due to this one issue.  It will certainly survive Torman Maxt.

I think the general gripe here was that the collaborators (or general members) were not consulted on this.  I wasn't aware of a "Featured Artist" every month, until this recent issue came up.  All that was required was a stickied message in all zones (much like the Zappa vs. Zappa DVD post) explaining that there will be a featured band and that the band members themselves have requested that no negative reviews be written until after the month feature has finished.

That would have certainly enlightened us a bit more.  It's not the best solution (I think there should have been a discussion with Admin and maybe even SCs), but if we had known about it beforehand, then there would unlikely to have been any negative reviews made.

I do understand that it was not your personal wish, Max, so I'm not blaming you for trying to ruin the site, or make a quick buck, because it is clear to me that you are dedicated to this sites future.

All I am saying is that it would have been nice to know about this situation before it occurred.


Edited by James - May 05 2008 at 11:48

You misunderstand me. I'm not calling this a sell-out. Rather I'm just trying to warn that it could be the beginning of the end if we're not careful. Greed is a beast and if you give it a micron, it'll take a millimeter.