lack of metal knowledge in some reviews

crimson87 wrote: Man , you should all realize that Prog archives was meant to be a prog rock site. Is not metal a sub-genre of rock? Now if for unknown reasons bands like Kreator(as an example) end up in the "tech-extreme-crap-metal" category.Thats another issue. The bold letters ruin my will to see your post as objective. Growling vocals cant be compared to angelical- Jon Andersonish-singing. Well, every singer decides for himself how he sings. If he wants to shout around, why not? There always will be people who like it.   If you want metal go to a metal site , you ll never get ...And Justice for all in prog archives , as an example.But it can be one of the most reviewed records on a true metal page Might be true. But if there is some thing called "progressive metal" why not talk about it on a side about prog? And as far as I read, I never saw someone who wished to do reviews of some metal not anyhow related to progressive music.   You gotta realize it when you see the name of the pageIT`S PROG ARCHIVES , NOT PUNK ARCHIVES OR DEATH ARCHIVES. If there develops something like progressive punk, I would accept it. Maybe not like it, but at least accept its place on this side. By the way I like that advise "progressive metal with a soul" its like they are taking all the blame.

Edited by Luke. J - May 04 2008 at 01:34

crimson87 wrote: Man , you should all realize that Prog archives was meant to be a prog rock site.Now if for unknown reasons bands like Kreator(as an example) end up in the "tech-extreme-crap-metal" category.Thats another issue. Growling vocals cant be compared to angelical- Jon Andersonish-singing.

Edited by The T - May 04 2008 at 01:38

avalanchemaster wrote: Pnoom! wrote: avalanchemaster wrote: yeah, but some would say the definition of "prog" is music that progresses.  some metal has progressed, hence it should be included if only by definition.  And why be so exclusive?  .....was prog meant to be narrow-minded?  hardly. Are you seriously accusing this site of being close-minded in its acceptance process?  If so, , you have much to learn. NO.  do not put words in my mouth.

I didn't put words in your mouth, I asked if what the words of your post implied was really what you thought.

LOL at your prog king attitude.

cite examples.  If you're referring to me telling you that you have much to learn if you think this site is close-minded when it comes to accepting bands, that's not a prog king attitude, that's a "if you reallly thought that, you would've been very wrong" attitude.

anyway, re-read the post, will ya.  the answer is right there.  imagine how those old school prog bands felt when they were getting swept under the rug of being taken seriously because music at large was not ready for them, (and was being exclusive and "narrow-minded".....maybe that is something that happens when you turn into an old proghead, you refuse to see "new" music as progressive.  Is that your problem?)

On the contrary, I vastly prefer this decade to the 1970s (well, not vastly but significantly).

The Residents had to buy commercial air time to get their music out to the world..........for instance.  who was ready for them?

I'm not sure how this is relevant

I think it is downright hilarious when a noob posts somewhere and the "old guard" (as it were) gets their panties in a bunch and jumps to logically erroneous conclusions, fumbling over themselves to PROOVE something to the noob......

Exactly what are you talking about?

the main problem I have with boards like this is that they are full of nerds who argue for the sake of argument

Oh no, people on a discussion board are actually discussing music

you need to get out of that mindset of needing to be "right" all the time......I have no beef with you.  You are just some online self-appointed referee

I don't need to be right all of the time.  That said, the point of a discussion board is to discuss things, and when you start a topic on something, you can't get upset when people debate the point you made.  That's called a double standard and it's rather ridiculous.

Also amusing is your double standard where you get mad at me for making a logical conclusion from the implications of your post, yet you then make a very erroneous judgment of my character based on a few online posts on a confined topic.

but everyone is tough online, I wonder what you are really like?

Now this is completely irrelevant, but I'm rather shy, I have poor social skills, I have a wry sense of humor, and I juggle a lot.


ALSO, A GENERAL NOTE FOR EVERYONE WHO USES THIS OR ANY FORUM:

When you type something (and say something, too, this applies to real life as well), it has implications that might not be explicitly stated.  Especially on a forum, you have the ability to make sure these implications are the implications you want to give off.  Thus you cannot get mad when people not only read the literal meaning of the words you post but the implications of them as well.

The T wrote: crimson87 wrote: Man , you should all realize that Prog archives was meant to be a prog rock site.Now if for unknown reasons bands like Kreator(as an example) end up in the "tech-extreme-crap-metal" category.Thats another issue. Growling vocals cant be compared to angelical- Jon Andersonish-singing.     Up until this point, this was a *miraculously* good thread, with most posts making a lot of sense from each side... but there's always somebody that has to bring their "enlightment" into the discussion....   And maybe that's what the thread creator also has in mind: metal is the one that most times get the "crap" treatment...   And the sad part is, crimson87, that "crap" you said reflects your frustration. Just weak frustration at the fact that a site has metal albums on it and that goes against your preconceived ideas, which by the way are so weak that you feel threatened by metal's presence in PA, therefore you have to call it names, instead of doing the wisest thing:   NOT LISTENING TO IT AND NOT READING ABOUT IT.

precisely.  I was just trying to open a dialogue.  I am on tons of metal boards too.  the opposite is true on them:  most of them are too "narrow-minded" to like prog.  Irony?  yes.  scenes get far too insular and just chase their own tale.  they need to break out of that mindset....

Pnoom!
you seem to have troubles interpreting my posts?  is english not your first language?  just curious, because some of your replies have really taken my posts and my original intent and really "ran with them".......
 no offense, but you are way off base....

crimson87 wrote: Man , you should all realize that Prog archives was meant to be a prog rock site.Now if for unknown reasons bands like Kreator(as an example) end up in the "tech-extreme-metal" category.Thats another issue. Growling vocals cant be compared to angelical- Jon Andersonish-singing.   If you want metal go to a metal site , you ll never get ...And Justice for all in prog archives , as an example.But it can be one of the most reviewed records on a true metal page   You gotta realize it when you see the name of the pageIT`S PROG ARCHIVES , NOT PUNK ARCHIVES OR DEATH ARCHIVES.By the way I like that advise "progressive metal with a soul" its like they are taking all the blame.

Let's all try to be civil here,this thread is going downhill fast.

I wasn't pointing fingers at you or Av.One member,who made only one post in this thread,just steered the thread in a negative direction.

Let's not sell Metal-Archives too short just yet as there are quite a few people who enjoy progressive rock there.

But anyway, metal is a schismatic genre as it is and it will always create controversy, so I guess I'm used to it. Hearing people dismiss it as "screaming music" or "noise" doesn't bother me anymore.

Plus, I don't pay attention to reviews here at all.

Pnoom! wrote: TheProgtologist wrote: Let's all try to be civil here,this thread is going downhill fast. I don't know about Avalanche's view on our debate, but I'm finding him perfectly civil and I believe I am responding in kind. Especially considering how frustrated I am, since we seem to agree on many points.

haha.  I just replied to a post of yours in the Kayo Dot thread, I think we have more in common than you think, maybe we are just misunderstanding each other.  My main point is that Metal is oft misunderstoood and villainized for its agressive (blue collar) roots, and as such has met with staunch refusal towards its legitimacy as music (even in terms of "prog" metal).  those who deem it "noise" will not look past these trappings to find that it does have something to offer.  (mind you that i do not think of "noise" as a negative term though, in fact I love noise/avant garde/deterministic music.....but that is for another thread) sadly the truth remains that there are detractors and denegrators of any artistic expression who will do their best to limit it's expression, because for whatever reason they question its validity.  If we limit music to definitions and limits of logic, we are forgetting that music is merely an expression of emotion on a mathematical and abstract plane.....and every human has those base instincts in common, different genres of music are merely like different dialects of the same universal language, some know the different colloquialisms, others refuse to hear any language outside of their native tongue.  how sad.  I for one try to understand as much as I can, it all comes from the same source of inspiration, and should as such be given a chance (keeping in mind that not all soldiers of said genre/dialect are good at speaking the language) but we all have different ears, and that is what makes us unique in our subjectivity, I just wish people were not so negative/vindictive and reactionary about music that they do not like.......


does that clear anything up?  I really just love music and want to see it fairly represented....