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avalanchemaster 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 730
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 Posted: May 04 2008 at 01:33 |
 Atavachron wrote:
crimson87 wrote:
Man , you should all realize that Prog archives was meant to be a prog rock site.Now if for unknown reasons bands like Kreator(as an example) end up in the "tech-extreme-crap-metal" category.Thats another issue.
Growling vocals cant be compared to angelical- Jon Andersonish-singing.
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indeed. this is the type of mentality I do NOT LIKE. what was already discussed in this thread: just cause you like/do not like it, it will not be UNIVERSALLY true. What if I find growl vocals angelic? what if I think angels are dark distorted fallen creatures? it's all subjective.....but that is just ridiculous^^^^^^
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Luke. J
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 07 2008
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 380
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Posted: May 04 2008 at 01:31 |
crimson87 wrote:
Man , you should all realize that Prog archives was meant to be a prog rock site.
Is not metal a sub-genre of rock?
Now if for unknown reasons bands like Kreator(as an example) end up in the "tech-extreme-crap-metal" category.Thats another issue.
The bold letters ruin my will to see your post as objective.
Growling vocals cant be compared to angelical- Jon Andersonish-singing.
Well, every singer decides for himself how he sings. If he wants to shout around, why not? There always will be people who like it.
If you want metal go to a metal site , you ll never get ...And Justice for all in prog archives , as an example.But it can be one of the most reviewed records on a true metal page
Might be true. But if there is some thing called "progressive metal" why not talk about it on a side about prog? And as far as I read, I never saw someone who wished to do reviews of some metal not anyhow related to progressive music.
You gotta realize it when you see the name of the pageIT`S PROG ARCHIVES , NOT PUNK ARCHIVES OR DEATH ARCHIVES.
If there develops something like progressive punk, I would accept it. Maybe not like it, but at least accept its place on this side.
By the way I like that advise "progressive metal with a soul" its like they are taking all the blame. |
I accept your opinion, but I feel the need to clarify that you can not put all metal in one giant basket. So, not all metal has the "growling vocals". Progressive metal, or whatever it is split to now, for example adds the complexity of 70's prog rock (or art rock, as it used to be called) to their music. However, I too think that the Extreme/Technical Metal category has some bands I can not find any relation to progressive rock.
And, last point: If you don't like growling vocals, then stay away from those bands, like I do it with psychedelic rock. Even if there are on the same side, the growling of some bands will not scare away your Close to the Edge.
Maybe I should add here that I like metal, alternative rock and, believe it or not, progressive rock..
Edit: So many fast people.. excuse me, but I started writing this at a time where it was the most actual post here
Edited by Luke. J - May 04 2008 at 01:34
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65244
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Posted: May 04 2008 at 01:29 |
crimson87 wrote:
Man , you should all realize that Prog archives was meant to be a prog rock site.Now if for unknown reasons bands like Kreator(as an example) end up in the "tech-extreme-crap-metal" category.Thats another issue.
Growling vocals cant be compared to angelical- Jon Andersonish-singing.
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DJPuffyLemon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 18 2008
Location: L
Status: Offline
Points: 520
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Posted: May 04 2008 at 01:29 |
Pnoom! wrote:
Depends on how you define prog. Most of the really good bands considered prog these days are prog-esque at best. The bands that are truly prog in the strictest sense are the retro and neo bands, and they certainly fall well short of the 70s bands.
The only truly prog music coming out these days that arguably rivals 70s prog is prog metal, but the overload of cheese makes so much of it unlistenable.
I guess my point is that the good prog bands today are not *just* prog bands, they are bands that mix proggy attributes (and even prog music) with other genres. Pure prog is a thing of the past.
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"Pure" prog bands:
Anekdoten (could be considred prog-esque by your definition, honestly they kinda regressed to sounding classic prog like with A Time of Day, but Nucleus, Gravity, and From Within are so progressive)
Dream Theater (prog metal which led the entire genre with their early albums)
Ephel Duath (prog metal mixed with jazz, but Pain Necessary to Know is waaaay too experimental for the description to be left at that)
Fantomas
Green Carnation (experimental black metal....but their newer stuff is kinda....ehhhhh...)
The Mars Volta
Opeth
Sleepytime Gorilla Museum
(Guess alot of it is metal....at least what I could think of atm)
I think the main problem though its that the prog bands of old were the ones that actually progressed and pushed bounds and so "The bands that are truly prog in the strictest sense are the retro and neo bands, and they certainly fall well short of the 70s bands." are NOT really prog at all because they are not doing anything new at all.
So its hard for there to be too many amazing prog bands anymore cause there's so few things that can be done to progress anymore (that's why Advant-garde and noise rock are really the only types of music which have potential to progress anymore....
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avalanchemaster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 730
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Posted: May 04 2008 at 01:23 |
Pnoom! wrote:
avalanchemaster wrote:
yeah, but some would say the definition of "prog" is music that progresses. some metal has progressed, hence it should be included if only by definition. And why be so exclusive? .....was prog meant to be narrow-minded? hardly.
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Are you seriously accusing this site of being close-minded in its acceptance process? If so,  , you have much to learn.
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NO. do not put words in my mouth. (or my post- quit projecting onto my posts). LOL at your prog king attitude. anyway, re-read the post, will ya. the answer is right there. imagine how those old school prog bands felt when they were getting swept under the rug of being taken seriously because music at large was not ready for them, (and was being exclusive and "narrow-minded".....maybe that is something that happens when you turn into an old proghead, you refuse to see "new" music as progressive. Is that your problem?) The Residents had to buy commercial air time to get their music out to the world..........for instance. who was ready for them? I think it is downright hilarious when a noob posts somewhere and the "old guard" (as it were) gets their panties in a bunch and jumps to logically erroneous conclusions, fumbling over themselves to PROOVE something to the noob......  the main problem I have with boards like this is that they are full of nerds who argue for the sake of argument, you need to get out of that mindset of needing to be "right" all the time......I have no beef with you. You are just some online self-appointed referee, but everyone is tough online, I wonder what you are really like?
Edited by avalanchemaster - May 04 2008 at 01:28
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Pnoom!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 02 2006
Location: OH
Status: Offline
Points: 4981
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Posted: May 04 2008 at 01:15 |
avalanchemaster wrote:
yeah, but some would say the definition of "prog" is music that progresses. some metal has progressed, hence it should be included if only by definition. And why be so exclusive? .....was prog meant to be narrow-minded? hardly.
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Are you seriously accusing this site of being close-minded in its acceptance process? If so, , you have much to learn.
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avalanchemaster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 730
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Posted: May 04 2008 at 01:14 |
crimson87 wrote:
Man , you should all realize that Prog archives was meant to be a prog rock site.Now if for unknown reasons bands like Kreator(as an example) end up in the "tech-extreme-crap-metal" category.Thats another issue.
Growling vocals cant be compared to angelical- Jon Andersonish-singing.
If you want metal go to a metal site , you ll never get ...And Justice for all in prog archives , as an example.But it can be one of the most reviewed records on a true metal page
You gotta realize it when you see the name of the pageIT`S PROG ARCHIVES , NOT PUNK ARCHIVES OR DEATH ARCHIVES.By the way I like that advise "progressive metal with a soul" its like they are taking all the blame. |
yeah, but some would say the definition of "prog" is music that progresses. some metal has progressed, hence it should be included if only by definition. And why be so exclusive? .....was prog meant to be narrow-minded? hardly.
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
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Posted: May 04 2008 at 01:05 |
Man , you should all realize that Prog archives was meant to be a prog rock site.Now if for unknown reasons bands like Kreator(as an example) end up in the "tech-extreme-metal" category.Thats another issue.
Growling vocals cant be compared to angelical- Jon Andersonish-singing.
If you want metal go to a metal site , you ll never get ...And Justice for all in prog archives , as an example.But it can be one of the most reviewed records on a true metal page
You gotta realize it when you see the name of the pageIT`S PROG ARCHIVES , NOT PUNK ARCHIVES OR DEATH ARCHIVES.By the way I like that advise "progressive metal with a soul" its like they are taking all the blame.
Edited by TheProgtologist - May 04 2008 at 01:46
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
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Posted: May 04 2008 at 00:34 |
Shakespeare wrote:
CCVP wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
Its Progarchives, not Metal-archives.
Try reading some Prog reviews on there
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but is it too much to ask fair prog metal reviews? after all, PROGRESSIVE metal is progressive after all.
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Your Ultimate Prog Rock Resource
Metal is but one small subgenre of this whole thing.
Well, Shakes, actually it's three!!! Lame-o, I say.
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What's lame?
That PM is divided into three sub-genres here now?
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Pnoom!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 02 2006
Location: OH
Status: Offline
Points: 4981
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Posted: May 04 2008 at 00:20 |
DJPuffyLemon wrote:
I'm also upset by the lack of recognition prog metal gets. My friend who's into classic prog and fusion really hates the vocals and just isn't a fan in general. Its upsetting because other than that he has really good taste. There's a lot of bad metal though, which is a shame, and is probably why a lot of the bad crap about it is coming from....
Pnoom! wrote:
Prog in the classic sense never died, but it's been on life support ever since that stinker known as Tales from Topographic Oceans 
It's children, neo and metal, are doing all they can to resurrect the failures of Tales (a.k.a. the cheesy overindulgence that gave prog a bad name in the first place).
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what no way! prog now is better than ever. |
Depends on how you define prog. Most of the really good bands considered prog these days are prog-esque at best. The bands that are truly prog in the strictest sense are the retro and neo bands, and they certainly fall well short of the 70s bands. The only truly prog music coming out these days that arguably rivals 70s prog is prog metal, but the overload of cheese makes so much of it unlistenable. I guess my point is that the good prog bands today are not *just* prog bands, they are bands that mix proggy attributes (and even prog music) with other genres. Pure prog is a thing of the past. Also, my Tales from Topographic Oceans comment was a joke, even though I do feel that way about the album.
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DJPuffyLemon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 18 2008
Location: L
Status: Offline
Points: 520
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Posted: May 04 2008 at 00:08 |
I'm also upset by the lack of recognition prog metal gets. My friend who's into classic prog and fusion really hates the vocals and just isn't a fan in general. Its upsetting because other than that he has really good taste. There's a lot of bad metal though, which is a shame, and is probably why a lot of the bad crap about it is coming from....
Pnoom! wrote:
Prog in the classic sense never died, but it's been on life support ever since that stinker known as Tales from Topographic Oceans
It's children, neo and metal, are doing all they can to resurrect the failures of Tales (a.k.a. the cheesy overindulgence that gave prog a bad name in the first place).
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what no way! prog now is better than ever.
Edited by DJPuffyLemon - May 04 2008 at 00:11
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: May 04 2008 at 00:05 |
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16435
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Posted: May 04 2008 at 00:04 |
Pnoom! wrote:
CCVP wrote:
What you mean by small? its the fastest growing genre of prog rock and to
ignore the importance of prog metal to the keeping of prog rock on the
scene is the same as to close your eyes to the mid day sun on the middle of Sahara.
Besides its the only sub-genre to attract attention to prog since neo prog on the 80's. In fact, i was drawn back to prog because of prog metal. Since my father thinks that prog REALLY died on the 80's (he don't like Marilion, etc) i also thought that for some time, until i discovered it was not dead by prog metal.
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Prog in the classic sense never died, but it's been on life support ever since that stinker known as Tales from Topographic Oceans
It's children, neo and metal, are doing all they can to resurrect the failures of Tales (a.k.a. the cheesy overindulgence that gave prog a bad name in the first place).
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I disagree. Its probably my favorite Yes album.
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: May 03 2008 at 23:58 |
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Pnoom!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 02 2006
Location: OH
Status: Offline
Points: 4981
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Posted: May 03 2008 at 23:56 |
CCVP wrote:
What you mean by small? its the fastest growing genre of prog rock and to
ignore the importance of prog metal to the keeping of prog rock on the
scene is the same as to close your eyes to the mid day sun on the middle of Sahara.
Besides its the only sub-genre to attract attention to prog since neo prog on the 80's. In fact, i was drawn back to prog because of prog metal. Since my father thinks that prog REALLY died on the 80's (he don't like Marilion, etc) i also thought that for some time, until i discovered it was not dead by prog metal.
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Prog in the classic sense never died, but it's been on life support ever since that stinker known as Tales from Topographic Oceans It's children, neo and metal, are doing all they can to resurrect the failures of Tales (a.k.a. the cheesy overindulgence that gave prog a bad name in the first place).
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avalanchemaster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 730
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Posted: May 03 2008 at 23:49 |
sinkadotentree wrote:
I think it would be awesome to give some sort of recognition to the pioneers of prog-metal.Fates Warning especially,but Psychotic Waltz,Watchtower and other that are perhaps even more obscure than Fates. |
hell yeah, I am behind this 200%. Psychotic Waltz is one of my all-time faves for sure. they brought it to a new level....in my opinion of course.....
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: May 03 2008 at 23:20 |
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: May 03 2008 at 23:18 |
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 13467
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Posted: May 03 2008 at 23:18 |
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I think it would be awesome to give some sort of recognition to the pioneers of prog-metal.Fates Warning especially,but Psychotic Waltz,Watchtower and other that are perhaps even more obscure than Fates.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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Shakespeare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 18 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 7744
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Posted: May 03 2008 at 23:13 |
CCVP wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
Its Progarchives, not Metal-archives.
Try reading some Prog reviews on there
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but is it too much to ask fair prog metal reviews? after all, PROGRESSIVE metal is progressive after all.
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Your Ultimate Prog Rock Resource Metal is but one small subgenre of this whole thing. Well, Shakes, actually it's three!!! Lame-o, I say.
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
lack of metal knowledge in some reviews
