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Topic ClosedDouble-bass drumming...
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Poll Question: Do you like it?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
1 [0.93%]
82 [75.93%]
18 [16.67%]
4 [3.70%]
2 [1.85%]
1 [0.93%]
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keiser willhelm View Drop Down
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Points: 1697 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2008 at 18:12
Originally posted by laplace laplace wrote:


I wouldn't have associated Meshuggah with double pedalling because the rhythms are always varied so that certain beats can be highlighted, something lost when you have a linear, regular kick.

I agree with laplace and mike about Meshuggah's drumming. never really had a problem with double bass. not that i like it everywhere but when its present it doesn't irk me or drive me insane. it does bother me however when a band like dragon force uses it but thats just a single fault in a long list with that powercheese band.
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Points: 21319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 04:19
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:


a gimmick still remains a gimmick, no matter how often it is repeated. I am not against double bass drumming per se, but I am against it if it is used over and over again. I expect more ideas from a band than repeating the duck quack over and over again


Well, it seems like double bass playing is slightly more popular than the duck quack ... and while I understand why you don't like it, I still don't understand why you're ridiculing it and make fun of those who accept it as a valid pattern of drumming. In the past I would have gotten angry over this ... today I don't do that anymore, I simply let such statements speak for themselves.Smile
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BaldJean View Drop Down
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Points: 10387 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 05:50
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:


a gimmick still remains a gimmick, no matter how often it is repeated. I am not against double bass drumming per se, but I am against it if it is used over and over again. I expect more ideas from a band than repeating the duck quack over and over again


Well, it seems like double bass playing is slightly more popular than the duck quack ... and while I understand why you don't like it, I still don't understand why you're ridiculing it and make fun of those who accept it as a valid pattern of drumming. In the past I would have gotten angry over this ... today I don't do that anymore, I simply let such statements speak for themselves.Smile

Mike, you are missing the point. I ridicule it ONLY when it is being repeated again and again. I have no doubt it can be made use of on occasions and that it is artistically justified at times. but when it is done again and again it becomes as notorious as the duck quack


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Points: 10665 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 05:59
I got to the point when I couldn't stand it any more. And that's one of the main reasons to why I have a hard time appreciating a lot of the power-prog-metal bands out there. I see no problem with it when it is used occasionally, that's when it is enjoyable, but as BaldJean so quaintly put it: when it is done again and again it becomes as notorious as the duck quack.

But with that I'm not trying to say that it is silly, bad per se, or totally uncalled for in its own musical realm, it's just my position on it here and now. Hell, for some time that was what I was looking for in music. Double bass, a singer with good pipes, and a good cover on the CD! But I feel there should be possible to go around it, and make a heavy drum performance without overusing it, and I'm sure there are many examples of just that.
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Points: 21319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 08:30
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:



Well, it seems like double bass playing is slightly more popular than the duck quack ... and while I understand why you don't like it, I still don't understand why you're ridiculing it and make fun of those who accept it as a valid pattern of drumming. In the past I would have gotten angry over this ... today I don't do that anymore, I simply let such statements speak for themselves.Smile

Mike, you are missing the point. I ridicule it ONLY when it is being repeated again and again. I have no doubt it can be made use of on occasions and that it is artistically justified at times. but when it is done again and again it becomes as notorious as the duck quack


It is a style of drumming, a type of beat if you will. It's not something like a giant gong which is only used in fill ins or breaks. Of course it is repeated, like any other beat is, no matter if one, two or no bass drums at all are used. Your comparison with the duck quack is the only thing that's ridiculous here, and I'm sure that 99% of all musicians who read this would agree with me.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - March 29 2008 at 08:30
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LinusW View Drop Down
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Points: 10665 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 08:38
I see your point. I guess the whole gimmick thing is there just because double bass drumming is so intimately associated with just metal. But as you said, "Of course it is repeated, like any other beat is".
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Points: 21319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 10:02
^ it's true that double bass drumming is primarily used in metal, but there are also some jazz drummers who used it (and indeed it was invented by jazz drummers). I can understand when people say that they don't like it, I just resent the notion that it's not valid.
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BaldJean View Drop Down
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Points: 10387 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 10:12
read my post again, MIke; i never said it is not valid. it is just not valid in about 90% of the cases Wink. and that's something I will stick to. it is a mannerism. there are other mannerisms in music (guitar players repeating the same 3 or even only 1 note over and over again, for example). there are moments when it may be artistically validated; when it happens again and again only the word "mannerism" is appropriate. Kraftprotzerei


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Points: 4702 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 10:14
When it fits the music.

To hell with double bass guitars, I want to hear a prog or jazz band with double tubas!
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Points: 10665 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 10:14
Yup, I understand. Thumbs%20Up
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Points: 10387 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 10:17
in many cases using double bass drum is comparable to a rapper telling about what a "mean MF" he is. and that's what I detest

Edited by BaldJean - March 29 2008 at 10:18


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Points: 10665 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 10:20
The battle rages on...LOL
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Points: 4702 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 10:20
Just like a frog is comparable to a balcony.
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Points: 21319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 10:25
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

read my post again, MIke; i never said it is not valid. it is just not valid in about 90% of the cases Wink. and that's something I will stick to. it is a mannerism. there are other mannerisms in music (guitar players repeating the same 3 or even only 1 note over and over again, for example). there are moments when it may be artistically validated; when it happens again and again only the word "mannerism" is appropriate. Kraftprotzerei


You simply don't like metal. You hate the essence of metal. You're extremely biased against it. Can't you see that? I have an idea where this bias is coming from and I'm very sorry about it, but *metal* isn't to blame for it, and I hope that there will come a time when you can make peace with this daemon.
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Points: 10387 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 10:36
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

read my post again, MIke; i never said it is not valid. it is just not valid in about 90% of the cases Wink. and that's something I will stick to. it is a mannerism. there are other mannerisms in music (guitar players repeating the same 3 or even only 1 note over and over again, for example). there are moments when it may be artistically validated; when it happens again and again only the word "mannerism" is appropriate. Kraftprotzerei


You simply don't like metal. You hate the essence of metal. You're extremely biased against it. Can't you see that? I have an idea where this bias is coming from and I'm very sorry about it, but *metal* isn't to blame for it, and I hope that there will come a time when you can make peace with this daemon.

you are wrong about that; Friede and I are not opposed to metal at all; we are opposed to a certain attitude which sadly is quite proliferate in metal. there is some metal we do like (though not much). some bands are indeed able to play tasteful metal. Ice Age for example, though we are not too fond of the singer. but at least those mannerisms we criticize are sparse with them


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Points: 21319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 10:38
^ check out Heaven's Cry ... I think you would enjoy them very much.
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Points: 4702 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 10:54
Just how is ultra-fast playing on a triggered drum testosterone-driven, I wonder? You need flexible wrists and strong feet and thighs, you certainly don't need to be 
a musclebound powerhouse. If I were to look for a 'Hemmingway of the drumkit', I'd think of Art Blakey, 
Philly Joe Jones, Marc Edwards, Khamid Drake, Milford Graves, William Hooker,
Han Bennink, Buddy Rich (obviously), Zach Hill and... Susie Ibarra. Still fairly disparate drummers.

No metal drummers here; Zach Hill would be the closest, but he's still not metal. 'Pre-trigger' metal drummers such as Mike Smith or Dave Lombardo or Mick Harris fit the bill better, but
with all due respect, they don't match the ferociousness of the above 
(except Lombardo in Fantomas,maybe).
   
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 11:00
double-kick drumming is a skill like any other; some can do it well and others cannot, but I doubt that testosterone has much to do with it, just speed, timing and stamina.
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Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 11:01

Not all the time, only when it fits the context.

Some may disagree here, but if that even means a whole song demands double-bass drums thoughout it, than I am cool with that.
To me, it doesn't make sense to simply not use it, as it is an extra means of expression, but at the end of the day, it has to be used appropiately to enhance the music.
 
 
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Points: 10387 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2008 at 11:08
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ check out Heaven's Cry ... I think you would enjoy them very much.

indeed, Mike, this is more to our liking. even the bass sounds warm here


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