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Topic ClosedThe Ultimate PA SYMPHONIC Album List

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ES335 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2008 at 22:54
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by ES335 ES335 wrote:

The thing about this is that this problem could have been pretty easily foreseen. Maybe next time you should float the idea and get some fedback rather than asking for lists right off the bat. Despite the subtle pressure from a site rep to stick to your/the site's guns, those who are frustrated by the rules have a legitimate complaint: what good is a list of great symphonic albums if you can't submit great symphonic albums to the list? The solution is of course obvious: don't change the rules, change the name of the list!
 
Call this:
 
THE ULTIMATE  LIST OF ALBUMS BY BANDS THAT PROGARCHIVES.COM CLASSIFIES AS SYMPHONIC, NEO-SYMPHONIC OR ITALIAN SYMPHONIC PROG
 
That way no one can complain because the list will be what it says it is.


float an idea?   it was simply an invitation for members to list their favorite albums from PA Symph bands, not whether we should offer people health insurance


 
No. It was an invitation to list their favorite albums with lots of rules. The rules have generated perhaps needless controversy. In the future it might be possible to prevent the controversy. Hence my suggestion.
 
I'm not suggesting that controversy is inherently bad by any means. Frequently it leads to the most interesting discussions. However, not being able to submit ITCOTKC to a list of great symphonic prog albums but being able to submit 80's Genesis isn't interesting, just intllectually frustrating. Overall this site is great, but a frequent complaint is there is too much emphasis on mindless polls and lists. Wouldn't it be more in the spirit of the site to allow some leeway for people to think? 
 
you seem to have an interest in protecting or at least defending PA's classification system. I have no problem with the overall system used on this site. From a usability standpoint, it makes more sense when organizing the information to operate on a general assumption that artists tend to work within a genre.
 
That general assumption doesn't seem to make sense for this undertaking, unless moreitthanyou is using a program to tally the results that won't be able to distinguish if a crank is submitting albums that clearly bear no resemblance to the symphonic style. Assuming no cranks, we're probably just talking about a handful of albums that have elements of symphonic combined with elements of eclectic or heavy prog. It seems to me, and others, that the list would be more accurate and interesting, without placing an undue burden on the project's creator, if people were able to exercise reasonable judgement.
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moreitsythanyou View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2008 at 22:10
^ Damn fine Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2008 at 22:07
I have to agree about sticking to the original rules, especially since I've made my list, free of the albums that should be included but aren't.
 
1. Marillion - Clutching At Straws
2. Genesis - Foxtrot
3. Discipline - Unfolded Like Staircase
4. After Crying - Struggle For Life
5. Steve Hackett - To Watch The Storms
6. Marillion - Script For A Jester's Tear
7. UK - UK
8. PFM - L'isola Di Niente
9. Arena - The Visitor
10. Echolyn - Suffocating The Bloom
11. Spock's Beard - The Light
12. Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down...
13. Marillion - Fugazi
14. Anglagard - Hybris
15. After Crying - De Profundis
16. IQ - The Wake
17. Steve Hackett - Spectral Morning
18. Camel - Moonmaddess
19. Goblin - Roller
20. Chris Squire - Fish Out Of Water
21. Genesis - Trespass
22. Camel - Rain Dances
23. Shylock - Gialorgues
24. Echolyn - The End Is Beautiful
25. Maxophone - Maxophone
26. ELP - ELP
27. IQ - Dark Matter
28. Steve Hackett - Wild Orchids
29. Glass Hammer - Lex Rex
30. Spock's Beard - The Kindness Of Strangers
31. Camel - The Snowgoose
32. Museo Rosenbach - Zarathustra
33. Genesis - A Trick Of The Tail
34. Yes - Fragile
35. Harmonium - Si On Avait...
36. Moon Safari - A Doorway To Summer
37. Deluge Grander - August In The Urals
38. Shylock - Ile De Fievre
39. Yes - Relayer
40. Arena - Pride
41. Transatlantic - Bridge Across Forever
42. Pendragon - The Masquerade Overture
43. K2 - Book Of The Dead
44. Banco... - Darwin! 
45. Twelfth Night - Fact And Fiction
46. Fish - Vigil In A Wilderness Of Mirrors
47. Le Orme - Felona E Sorona
48. Puppet Show - The Tale Of Woe
49. RAK - Lepidoptera
50. The Flower Kings - Unfold The Future
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2008 at 16:06
Well ES335, Neo and Symphonic have a very close relation and Italian Symphonic is Symphonic, so it's an interesting experiment to talk about bands that are related,. despite not being formally in the same sub-genre.
 
Iván
 
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2008 at 15:41
Originally posted by ES335 ES335 wrote:

The thing about this is that this problem could have been pretty easily foreseen. Maybe next time you should float the idea and get some fedback rather than asking for lists right off the bat. Despite the subtle pressure from a site rep to stick to your/the site's guns, those who are frustrated by the rules have a legitimate complaint: what good is a list of great symphonic albums if you can't submit great symphonic albums to the list? The solution is of course obvious: don't change the rules, change the name of the list!
 
Call this:
 
THE ULTIMATE  LIST OF ALBUMS BY BANDS THAT PROGARCHIVES.COM CLASSIFIES AS SYMPHONIC, NEO-SYMPHONIC OR ITALIAN SYMPHONIC PROG
 
That way no one can complain because the list will be what it says it is.


float an idea?   it was simply an invitation for members to list their favorite albums from PA Symph bands, not whether we should offer people health insurance


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2008 at 13:16
Originally posted by moreitsythanyou moreitsythanyou wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I think you should stick to your original rules.. there are billions of bands that "could" be considered Symph... don't bow to the pressure!!  Wink Smile       ..heck, do what ever works, but it would make our other lists moot, I tell you, moot !



That's the biggest problem. I really didn't want to change it but if people can come up with good enough reasoning, I guess that works, although it did ruin it Ouch
 
The thing about this is that this problem could have been pretty easily foreseen. Maybe next time you should float the idea and get some fedback rather than asking for lists right off the bat. Despite the subtle pressure from a site rep to stick to your/the site's guns, those who are frustrated by the rules have a legitimate complaint: what good is a list of great symphonic albums if you can't submit great symphonic albums to the list? The solution is of course obvious: don't change the rules, change the name of the list!
 
Call this:
 
THE ULTIMATE  LIST OF ALBUMS BY BANDS THAT PROGARCHIVES.COM CLASSIFIES AS SYMPHONIC, NEO-SYMPHONIC OR ITALIAN SYMPHONIC PROG
 
That way no one can complain because the list will be what it says it is.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2008 at 13:10
Originally posted by moreitsythanyou moreitsythanyou wrote:

Lovely lists Iván and Keppa Clap
 
Thank you very much, but get ready, it may and will change Wink
 
I make my lists depending in the mood, normally my top 3 don't change...But the rest, well, it depends.
 
Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2008 at 09:28
Temporary first 10. May be changed,  will likely get the second 10 added later.
1. Close To The Edge - Yes
2. Emerson, Lake & Palmer - ELP
3. In The Court Of The Crimson King - King Crimson
4. Selling England By The Pound - Genesis
5. Tarkus - ELP
6. Trespass - Genesis
7. To Watch The Storms - Steve Hackett
8. Nursery Cryme - Genesis
9. Script For A Jester's Tear - Marillion
10. Tales From Topographic Oceans - Yes
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2008 at 14:01
^Thank you Smile There might be some changes before the deadline, I'm planning to get into Änglagĺrd's Epilog for real and there's also some promising Italian stuff from my girlfriends collection waiting to be examined...Thumbs%20Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2008 at 00:09
Lovely lists Iván and Keppa Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2008 at 00:06
  1. Foxtrot (Genesis)
  2. Hybris (Anglagard)
  3. Nursery Cryme (Genesis)
  4. Gothic Impressions (Par Lindh Project)
  5. Trespass (Genesis)
  6. Leftoverture (Kansas
  7. Illusions on a Double Dimple (Triumvirat)
  8. Sheherezade and other Stories (Renaissance)
  9. Trilogy (ELP)
  10. BSS (ELP)
  11. Darwin! (Banco del Mutuop Soccorso)
  12. Hamburger Concerto (Focus)
  13. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (Genesis)
  14. SEBTP (Genesis)
  15. Relayer (Yes)
  16. Revolutions (Magenta)
  17. Script for a Jester's Tear (Marillion)
  18. Masquerade Overture (Pendragon)
  19. Welcome to the Freakroojm (Shadow Circus)
  20. Felona e Sorona (Le Orme)

Iván

            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2008 at 23:07
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I think you should stick to your original rules.. there are billions of bands that "could" be considered Symph... don't bow to the pressure!!  Wink Smile       ..heck, do what ever works, but it would make our other lists moot, I tell you, moot !



That's the biggest problem. I really didn't want to change it but if people can come up with good enough reasoning, I guess that works, although it did ruin it Ouch
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2008 at 14:55
1. Il Balleto di Bronzo - YS
 
 
Tell you about the other ones later Smile

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2008 at 05:44
I tried to think why I shouldn't put three Camel albums at the top, but couldn't find any real reasons. Those are the symph albums I love the most, so why not. Here we go:

1. Camel - Mirage
2. Camel - Moonmadness
3. Camel - The Snow Goose
4. Änglagĺrd - Hybris
5. Yes - Close to the Edge
6. Camel - Rajaz
7. Premiata Forneria Marconi - Stati di Immaginazione
8. Camel - A Nod and A Wink
9. Yes - Fragile
10. Premiata Forneria Marconi - Storia di un Minuto
11. Camel - Harbour of Tears
12. Yes - The Yes Album
13. Genesis - Wind and Wuthering
14. Genesis - A Trick of the Tail
15. Premiata Forneria Marconi - Per Un Amico
16. Camel - Rain Dances
17. New Trolls - Concerto Grosso n. 1
18. Yes - Magnification
19. Premiata Forneria Marconi - L'Isola di Niente
20. Camel - Nude
21. Yes - Relayer
22. Locanda Delle Fate - Forse Le Luccione Non Si Amano Piů
23. Chris Squire - Fish Out of Water
24. Quella Vecchia Locanda - Il Tempo Della Gioia
25. Yes - Going for the One
26. Camel - Dust and Dreams
27. New Trolls - Concerto Grosso n. 2
28. Genesis - Selling England by the Pound
29. Camel - Camel
30. Yes - Tales from the Topographic Oceans
31. Genesis - Trespass
32. Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Tarkus
33. Focus - Hamburger Concerto
34. White Willow - Sacrament
35. Yes - Drama
36. Rick Wakeman - Six Wives of Henry VIII
37. Campo di Marte - Campo di Marte
38. New Trolls - UT
39. Yes - Tormato
40. Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Brain Salad Surgery
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2008 at 03:54
I think you should stick to your original rules.. there are billions of bands that "could" be considered Symph... don't bow to the pressure!!  Wink Smile       ..heck, do what ever works, but it would make our other lists moot, I tell you, moot !


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2008 at 00:16
I thought it would be easier for people to do this using preset definitions of what is and what isn't symphonic. I really do not want people to argue about what is and what isn't symphonic. I didn't have any intentions of making it so subjective as to which albums were eligible. And also, I have more lists of people who followed the rules than from those who did not. Changing the rules midway would be unfair to them.
But I did realize one thing. This list isn't just for me, it's for everyone. If enough people want to include what ever they want, that's fine. I just don't want to repeat the no-rules list I did earlier. No offense to Tuxon, but there are one or two albums on his list that I really can't see as being considered symphonic.
None the less, I have reached a final decision. If you can provide a well-written sentence or two describing why it should be allowed, I'll make a list of allowed albums outside the genres. If you make a convincing enough argument, I'll make that particular album eligible. (Don't worry, I'll be lenient. Wink) That includes any one who already submitted a list and would like to edit it or include albums not considered symphonic on the site. I think this is a fair compromise.
Just a preemptive list:
King Crimson - In the Court & Lizard

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2008 at 00:02
Moreitsy (Daniel I think),  It's your poll and I respect your right to run it the way you want and PA bases subgenres by band. However here we are listing albums not bands.  I think it could be fun for this to also be a place for people to be able to express their opinion on what is symphonic.  If an album gets lots of votes despite not being classified on PA as symphonic then that's saying something important.  Case in point, ITCOTKC is I think in a lot of peoples minds, a symphonic album but KC are not classified as symphonic because of their output as a whole.   So why not let people vote for what they what and let the chips fall where they may?  Kenmar
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2008 at 01:41
Symph Prog is the biggest of all kinds of prog. we're all mainstream!!! Approve
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2008 at 23:21
 ^ now that's just silly.. some of us still listen to Symph   Big%20smile











Edited by Atavachron - March 09 2008 at 23:21
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2008 at 23:16
Originally posted by moreitsythanyou moreitsythanyou wrote:

Pinch


Perhaps I should have gone with post rock...
 
I agree.
 
I dont remeber the last time I even pumped a symphonic album, so I wont participate. Tell me when you do the post rock one!
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