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Direct Link To This Post Topic: A thread for keyboard players
    Posted: February 28 2008 at 09:16
This is, as mentioned in the title, a thread for keyboard players only. If you do not play keyboards, please kindly leave

Basically, i want to get to know different keyboard players like myself, and I'm also very interested in the various styles amongst you.

So if you are on this thread, tell everyone about yourself! I would be glad to hear it, whether you are a jazz player, classical player, pianist, organist, synth user, prog player, accordionist, i want to hear about your opinions and about you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2008 at 14:44
Hey Alex, I've been playing keyboards for decades. I've played a lot of styles including reggae, progressive rock, Latin rock, acid jazz, funk, lounge exotica, experimental electronic and commercial stuff too.
Probably my usual style is a mix of RnB, jazz and some psychedelic influences. Some of the influences you might hear in my playing include keyboardists Jon Lord, Brian Auger, Larry Young, Herbie Hancock, Greg Rollie and Sun Ra, as well as guitarists McLaughlin, Hendrix and Pete Cosey, although I would not claim to play as well as any of those, especially Hancock.
You can check out my acid jazz band at myspacemusic.com/zazerac

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2008 at 14:50
I've played for fifteen years or so, although if I'm pressured to actually perform anything, it sounds more like fifteen minutes. I'm influenced more by writers than keyboard players so I don't really sound like anyone else.

I do love Mr. Minnear's keyboard play, though - sometimes I can incidentally sound like someone who has light-years more talent than I - and just generally, I'm a fan of the sound of the electric piano wherever it appears.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2008 at 16:09
Kerry Minnear is absolutely fantastic. I love what he does in Gentle Giant's "Proclomation". Some really quite amazing stuff on there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 14:18
Two things Alex,
 
I notice that you don't mention Emerson except in passng. Do you rate Wakeman more highly and if so, why?
 
Secondly, in a previous posting you mentioned that your at Birmingham Conservertoire - are there any good vocal talents there who could sing prog (Tenor range)?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2008 at 09:31
Originally posted by kineto_zetetics kineto_zetetics wrote:

Two things Alex,
 
I notice that you don't mention Emerson except in passng. Do you rate Wakeman more highly and if so, why?
 
Secondly, in a previous posting you mentioned that your at Birmingham Conservertoire - are there any good vocal talents there who could sing prog (Tenor range)?


On the first point:

I rate King Rick higher than Keith for four reasons, 1. He went through a lot of pain to get to where he is now because of his wrist problem, and to go through that and be one of the most respectable names on a keyboard is very noble indeed IMO 2. I think his technique is a lot neater than Emerson's 3. Emerson has a lot of time issues; I've seen many a time when he goes out of rhythm, and it's not pretty 4. I find Wakeman's solos to be way more melodic than Emerson, and despite what Rick is capable of (and we all know that), he remains extremely disciplined with his playing. Keith's just ends up being one big mess with no real memorable moments at all.

On the second point:

Yes there are indeed plenty, however the best of what I know is a pianist/organist in my choir, my friend Jamie. He can sing a very large range and can convincingly get away with being a Tenor and a Bass. There are also numerous other talents in the building that I have heard, but not had the pleasure of meeting properly yet. Birmingham believe it or not is a torrent of raw and developed talent.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2008 at 14:48
Alex, I wonder if you have done your homework here.
 
Firstly, I don't give a monkeys about the degree of discomfort/pain suffered by a performer, for me its the sonic product that is the bottom line. However, in terms of suffering with performance inhibiting problems I think KE has really been through the mill during the last 15 years with his numerous operations etc.
 
In terms of technique I partly agree. Emerson has been sloppy in terms of articulation, timing and phrasing since the early 90s. HOWEVER! If you go back to his halcion days (e.g. The 'Pathetique' from 'Elergy', or 'Karn Evil 9' from BSS) the standard of execution is outstanding. Have you heard "Elergy"?
 
Back in the early 70s Wakeman did some well planned and truly melodic solos (e.g. The solo from Jane Seymour during the 'King Arthur on Ice' gigs).  Since this period it is my contention that most of his solos are unplanned and have little in terms of over-arching trajectory. I've seen him play several times in recent years (last time at 'The Robbin' (Bilston)) 6 months back.  I suggest you listen to Emerson's solo from "Stones of the Years" (on the "Welcome Back My Friends triple album). It has a superb emotive trajectory and resolution.
Another key difference in the approach of these two players is the degree of tonality. Whilst Wakeman esentialy deals with scales and arpegios that would have pleased Mozart, Emerson has a wider tonal palette that certainly encompasses the innovations of the 20th century. Check out "The 3 Fates" (from the first "Emerson, Lake and Palmer" album for its block use of forths and seconds or "Creole Dance" for the use of  tone clusters and extended 11th chords.
 
Don't misunderstand me - I've loved Wakeman for a long time and have been blown away by some of his work. However, there are (for me) many more memorable Emerson moments. I really think that you should go back and listen to the first five ELP albums and the last 3 Nice albums and then re-evaluate.
 
Thanks for the tip about the conservertoire. Ii was thinking of hiring a singer from there to record my latest project so that's a useful bit of inside info.
 
Cheers
KZ
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2008 at 15:23
I've been playing for about  13 years - started playing classical, gave up and went to rock for a couple of years, then heard Keith Emerson play (specifically Hoedown and Creole Dance) and went back to classical like a shot. I now divide my time between full-on classical playing (Grieg, Rachmaninov, Khachaturian, Mussourgsky), playing keys in my new classic/prog rock band, fiddling with synths and working out Dave Brubeck and Keith Emerson pieces.

On the Emerson/Wakeman debate, I have to go with Emerson. Although I don't necessarily like all of his stuff with ELP, he more than makes up for it with pieces like his Piano Concerto, Hoedown and Creole Dance (the latter I have many blisters from playing) That is not say that he is without his faults, and I still love lots of Wakeman's work. Combine Rick's right hand with Keith's left, and then you have a keyboard playing force to be reckonned with!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2008 at 16:41
Originally posted by kineto_zetetics kineto_zetetics wrote:

Alex, I wonder if you have done your homework here.
 
Firstly, I don't give a monkeys about the degree of discomfort/pain suffered by a performer, for me its the sonic product that is the bottom line. However, in terms of suffering with performance inhibiting problems I think KE has really been through the mill during the last 15 years with his numerous operations etc.
 
In terms of technique I partly agree. Emerson has been sloppy in terms of articulation, timing and phrasing since the early 90s. HOWEVER! If you go back to his halcion days (e.g. The 'Pathetique' from 'Elergy', or 'Karn Evil 9' from BSS) the standard of execution is outstanding. Have you heard "Elergy"?
 
Back in the early 70s Wakeman did some well planned and truly melodic solos (e.g. The solo from Jane Seymour during the 'King Arthur on Ice' gigs).  Since this period it is my contention that most of his solos are unplanned and have little in terms of over-arching trajectory. I've seen him play several times in recent years (last time at 'The Robbin' (Bilston)) 6 months back.  I suggest you listen to Emerson's solo from "Stones of the Years" (on the "Welcome Back My Friends triple album). It has a superb emotive trajectory and resolution.
Another key difference in the approach of these two players is the degree of tonality. Whilst Wakeman esentialy deals with scales and arpegios that would have pleased Mozart, Emerson has a wider tonal palette that certainly encompasses the innovations of the 20th century. Check out "The 3 Fates" (from the first "Emerson, Lake and Palmer" album for its block use of forths and seconds or "Creole Dance" for the use of  tone clusters and extended 11th chords.
 
Don't misunderstand me - I've loved Wakeman for a long time and have been blown away by some of his work. However, there are (for me) many more memorable Emerson moments. I really think that you should go back and listen to the first five ELP albums and the last 3 Nice albums and then re-evaluate.
 
Thanks for the tip about the conservertoire. Ii was thinking of hiring a singer from there to record my latest project so that's a useful bit of inside info.
 
Cheers
KZ
Sunny Bournville


Oh boy, you assume that because I'm still at school that I still do homework

As for the classic Wakeman vs Emerson debate (which has been going on for years no doubt), I still think that as a musician that tidiness and emotion are everything. Don't get me wrong, I love Keith's solos in Stones of Years and KE9, but i think Wakeman is slightly more inventive, even though his solos don't take as much from jazz as Emerson's. He has a unique finger position also that I find very interesting indeed, and it opens him up to more interesting stuff than Emerson's traditional style. I also saw a youtube video of Keith doing a similar thing to Oscar Peterson with a piano blues improvisation, and I was not impressed. It was a load of random notes strung together with the odd melodic bassline thrown in here and there, also musically quoting from Take A Pebble. There is not one thing Wakeman has done that hasn't impressed me.

I've also recently discovered Kerry Minnear, and I think that he should be mentioned somewhere along the lines perhaps i'll make a poll about it...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2008 at 16:48
Hi, I've been practicing the piano since age 9, and for the moment I'm participating in two different musical settings: a band which plays 'traditional' music like gospel, blues, rock, and a more progressive experimental collaboration: we're with two keyboard players and a drummer (style a bit like Michael Giles).
 
My keyboard heroes are Eddie Jobson, Tony Banks, Keith Emerson, Rick Wakeman, Dave Stewart and Ton Scherpenzeel. My style is a bit Banks-like (unusual chords, yet not a lot of real dissonants) and Wakeman-like (not the virtuosity, but something in the style, with a lot of arpeggio's, scales and using more sunny major keys than average). 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2008 at 11:58
Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Hi, I've been practicing the piano since age 9, and for the moment I'm participating in two different musical settings: a band which plays 'traditional' music like gospel, blues, rock, and a more progressive experimental collaboration: we're with two keyboard players and a drummer (style a bit like Michael Giles).
 
My keyboard heroes are Eddie Jobson, Tony Banks, Keith Emerson, Rick Wakeman, Dave Stewart and Ton Scherpenzeel. My style is a bit Banks-like (unusual chords, yet not a lot of real dissonants) and Wakeman-like (not the virtuosity, but something in the style, with a lot of arpeggio's, scales and using more sunny major keys than average). 


I like it, just out of curiosity, what gear do you own?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2008 at 12:10
Originally posted by kibble_alex kibble_alex wrote:



Oh boy, you assume that because I'm still at school that I still do homework
As for the classic Wakeman vs Emerson debate (which has been going on for years no doubt), I still think that as a musician that tidiness and emotion are everything. Don't get me wrong, I love Keith's solos in Stones of Years and KE9, but i think Wakeman is slightly more inventive, even though his solos don't take as much from jazz as Emerson's. He has a unique finger position also that I find very interesting indeed, and it opens him up to more interesting stuff than Emerson's traditional style. I also saw a youtube video of Keith doing a similar thing to Oscar Peterson with a piano blues improvisation, and I was not impressed. It was a load of random notes strung together with the odd melodic bassline thrown in here and there, also musically quoting from Take A Pebble. There is not one thing Wakeman has done that hasn't impressed me.
 
*Alex, the homework comment was not meant literally but was a comment encouraging you to listen to the Emerson's previous work - You haven't responded to my question about ' Elergy' and if you haven't heard this, you must.  Emerson has done traditional jazz piano stuff (ala the Peterson style stuff) which I agree is predictable. However, he has done some innovative solos (e.g. the solo from 'Pirates' which is based on 5ths ( a bugger to play). Generally speaking I don't find Wakemans stuff too challenging to play and the fingering based on the arrangements in the 6 Wives songbook are pretty much standard. His work on the later Yes albums (e.g. Tormato & GFTOne) are mostly based on diatonic arpegios - I used to play a cover version of 'Release, Release' which was fun. I find Emerson's fingerings much more chromatic and more challenging.
 
As far as being impressed by everything Wakeman has done ("not one thing that hasn't impressed me") he has produced around 40 solo albums and to my mind only the first 3 (plus the occasional odd track from the others) are first rate. Have you heard 'Rhapsodies' for example, some of the tracks on this are 6th rate!  At the end of the day everybody's tastes are subjective and i've enjoyed both of these players for their own style. How do you rate Moraz?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2008 at 13:00
I thought I'd weigh in on the Emerson-Wakeman conversation. I used to listen to both a lot a long time ago, but these days maybe Emersom occaisonally.

The difference is that Keith has developed his own personal harmonic language. You can hear his influences; Hindemith, Copland, Poulenc, Gershwin, Bartok, McCoy Tyner, Jimmy Smith etc. but he puts all this together and comes up with something that is uniquely his.

Wakeman's harmonic language comes from the era of Mozart and he really doesn't add anything to that, as has been pointed out already.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2008 at 17:17
Originally posted by kibble_alex kibble_alex wrote:

Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Hi, I've been practicing the piano since age 9, and for the moment I'm participating in two different musical settings: a band which plays 'traditional' music like gospel, blues, rock, and a more progressive experimental collaboration: we're with two keyboard players and a drummer (style a bit like Michael Giles).
 
My keyboard heroes are Eddie Jobson, Tony Banks, Keith Emerson, Rick Wakeman, Dave Stewart and Ton Scherpenzeel. My style is a bit Banks-like (unusual chords, yet not a lot of real dissonants) and Wakeman-like (not the virtuosity, but something in the style, with a lot of arpeggio's, scales and using more sunny major keys than average). 


I like it, just out of curiosity, what gear do you own?
 
Thanks. I just own a simple Roland JV 90. I don't have money at the moment for a larger equipment. Hopefully that will change some day.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2008 at 11:28
Originally posted by kineto_zetetics kineto_zetetics wrote:

Originally posted by kibble_alex kibble_alex wrote:



Oh boy, you assume that because I'm still at school that I still do homework
As for the classic Wakeman vs Emerson debate (which has been going on for years no doubt), I still think that as a musician that tidiness and emotion are everything. Don't get me wrong, I love Keith's solos in Stones of Years and KE9, but i think Wakeman is slightly more inventive, even though his solos don't take as much from jazz as Emerson's. He has a unique finger position also that I find very interesting indeed, and it opens him up to more interesting stuff than Emerson's traditional style. I also saw a youtube video of Keith doing a similar thing to Oscar Peterson with a piano blues improvisation, and I was not impressed. It was a load of random notes strung together with the odd melodic bassline thrown in here and there, also musically quoting from Take A Pebble. There is not one thing Wakeman has done that hasn't impressed me.
 
*Alex, the homework comment was not meant literally but was a comment encouraging you to listen to the Emerson's previous work - You haven't responded to my question about ' Elergy' and if you haven't heard this, you must.  Emerson has done traditional jazz piano stuff (ala the Peterson style stuff) which I agree is predictable. However, he has done some innovative solos (e.g. the solo from 'Pirates' which is based on 5ths ( a bugger to play). Generally speaking I don't find Wakemans stuff too challenging to play and the fingering based on the arrangements in the 6 Wives songbook are pretty much standard. His work on the later Yes albums (e.g. Tormato & GFTOne) are mostly based on diatonic arpegios - I used to play a cover version of 'Release, Release' which was fun. I find Emerson's fingerings much more chromatic and more challenging.
 
As far as being impressed by everything Wakeman has done ("not one thing that hasn't impressed me") he has produced around 40 solo albums and to my mind only the first 3 (plus the occasional odd track from the others) are first rate. Have you heard 'Rhapsodies' for example, some of the tracks on this are 6th rate!  At the end of the day everybody's tastes are subjective and i've enjoyed both of these players for their own style. How do you rate Moraz?


He is a very good player, probably one of the best in prog. However, I could not decide between him and wakeman, as both of their works with Yes are more than incredible. I also consider Moraz to be direly underrated comparitively; he was trained to exactly the same level as Wakeman, so it's kinda criminal if you think about it. What are your opinions? And what do you think of Thomas Bodin of the Flower Kings?

By the way, the homework statement was also an innocent joke on my part
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2008 at 18:15
okay, i've been playing for about four years now. I started out playing classical,  but got a bit bored by the rigid structure and the philosophy that I could only play other people's work. As much as I enjoy classical music I know I can't spend my life doing nothing but that.
Now, I'm at a point where stylistically I play a sort of fusion of classical, free jazz, experimental, and rock. For classical, I like mainly romantic and 20th century composers. I like the other eras but they just don't influence me too much as a whole. I like to take the deep pathos I get from classical and also it's technicality and use that in the context of unstructured improvised music where I can do whatever I want (this is when I play solo). For bands I've played metal, psychedelic, prog, and hard rock/classic rock. Currently I play in an experimental prog metal band and another one where I'm the only member and I play with whoever I feel like playing whatever we feel like at the moment, which tends to go towards the free improv prog/jazz/rock type stuff.
For equipment, I have a yamaha s08 synth, a hammond transistor organ, and a hohner melodica. I actually prefer to play acoustic pianos over anything else but i don't have the money or space for one at the time so I play them wherever I can. I also play a bit of accordion and keyboard percussion like marimba, xylophone, and vibraphone.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2008 at 17:13
Originally posted by sean sean wrote:

okay, i've been playing for about four years now. I started out playing classical,  but got a bit bored by the rigid structure and the philosophy that I could only play other people's work. As much as I enjoy classical music I know I can't spend my life doing nothing but that.
Now, I'm at a point where stylistically I play a sort of fusion of classical, free jazz, experimental, and rock. For classical, I like mainly romantic and 20th century composers. I like the other eras but they just don't influence me too much as a whole. I like to take the deep pathos I get from classical and also it's technicality and use that in the context of unstructured improvised music where I can do whatever I want (this is when I play solo). For bands I've played metal, psychedelic, prog, and hard rock/classic rock. Currently I play in an experimental prog metal band and another one where I'm the only member and I play with whoever I feel like playing whatever we feel like at the moment, which tends to go towards the free improv prog/jazz/rock type stuff.
For equipment, I have a yamaha s08 synth, a hammond transistor organ, and a hohner melodica. I actually prefer to play acoustic pianos over anything else but i don't have the money or space for one at the time so I play them wherever I can. I also play a bit of accordion and keyboard percussion like marimba, xylophone, and vibraphone.


Wow, quite the variety Clap I am also a lot more comfortable on an acoustic piano, the weighted keys just feel so natural. Have you ever played a Steinways? If you ever get the chance, I advise to do so! Gorgeous pianos to play Smile I've always wanted to experiment with keyboard percussion, I am saving up for a marimba at the moment, it would make a nice addition to my keyboard rack. From what I've heard, Kerry Minnear is very sufficiant at keyboard percussion, I only had to listen to Knots and Runaway - Gentle Giant to establish that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2008 at 12:18
I agree with both of you on the point of acoustic pianos. Sadly no synthesiser manufacturer has been able to match the feel of the action and the sensitive and linear control of dynamics of a real piano. The nearest thing I have is a Yamaha S90 but this is still a far cry from my Welmar piano.  The worst keyboard I own in this respect is a PolyMoog whose keyboard is appauling. I tried tuned percussion for a while but couln't get on with it at all (great sounds though - saw Evelyn Glennie on Marimba several years back she was sensational).
 
Concerning Moraz - he is a great player. I had the privilege to have a jam with him once (on his Bossendorfer under a stage) - he wiped the floor with me. I  love his first 3 solo albums (not to mention Relayer). Though I think he has maintained his level of performance (I've got two albums from recent years) I don't think that his initial degree of  inspiration has survived and I find his recent work tedious.
 
Minnear is great and Gentle Giant were such a unique band. I don't think any band since has done counterpoint and rounds as well.  I  like the Flower Kings and have seen them a couple of times though I'm not specifically impressed with Bodin (love Stolt's work). My favourite contemporary players are Andy Tillison (The Tangent), Ryo Okumoto (Spock's Beard), Jem Godfrey (Frost), Tom Szakaly (Noddy's Puncture), Fredrick Hermansson (Pain of Salvation) and Fred Schendel (Glass Hammer).
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2008 at 17:45
For the Emerson/ Wakeman debate, I would have to go with Wakeman. I like ELP's stuff more than Wakeman's solo stuff, but that's because of Greg Lake mainly. For me, Keith Emerson is probably better, but I like Wakeman more. Keith Emerson's music seems self-indulgent to me, which is fine sometimes, but it goes nowhere. He just goes on these solos that are technically amazing, yet they do not build towards anything. I personally prefer Emerson's organ work to his flying up and down the keyboard solos.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2008 at 09:43
Those are near enough my feelings towards the debate, sheeves. I've always found Keith to be a little too bombastic and technical for me, a bit like comparing Portnoy to Carey on drums. Rick leads you into his amazing skills little bits at a time.

As for the keyboard players you mentioned kineto_zetetics, I have only ever heard Ryo Okumoto (shook the guys hand at a Spock's Beard gig I went to ) and Andy Tillison. Both are superb. However, Thomas Bodin is a little deeper than that: he's quite laid back with TFK, try looking at his solo works. I was greatly impressed, he is also a very skilled songwriter.

I'm off to play some Brahms now
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