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Topic ClosedChristian prog vs secular prog

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Garion81 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 18:03
Kerry Livgren's lyrics have always been of a spiritual nature from the get go although there is a more definite view after his conversion in 1979.  I find his lyrics view pre- conversion to be better somehow although I don't have any argument with his present faith.  I think if you listen to Before Became After by Proto-Kaw the songs written in the 1971-3 era are better to me except Leaven.  Those songs are Quantum Leapfrog, Axolotl, Heavenly Man and Theophany (no Kerry did not change any of the lyrics from  the way they were in the new recordings)
 
Neal Morse is way more upfront with his lyrics than Kerry is. Kerry said he likes the listener to respond to what they hear rather than him telling you what it is. Neal is way more in your face about what he believes. That being said I don't think you can go wrong with either artist.  They both create some fantastic music.  


"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 18:10
for me, lyrics really should be looked at seperately from the music, and shouldn't really interfere with the music itself (unless its glaringly horribly written.) My mom tells me I don't listen to enough Christian music LOL but my problem is modern Christian Rock 99% of the time thinks they can pass off generic music as amazing if they have (equally generic) religious lyrics. I reaaaaaally want an artist who makes great music and in depth lyrics based around this, and the closest I have is Neal Morse whose lyrics are at the very least passable


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 18:47
Kerry LIvgren writes in a clever way he allows the listener to find the meaning whatever that meaning may be. he isn't preachy at all he makes it fun to receive meaning and I finish listening to all of his songs wanting to find out more. Certain words and phrases have a more poetic and musical quality about them Livgren seems to be such a master composer he knows what sounds best and means the most.


Edited by Yorkie X - December 17 2007 at 18:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 19:24
Although he's not always widely considered a prog artist or a Christian artist, I'd strongly recommend checking out Sufjan Stevens. He makes some very progressive, interesting, and beautiful music, and many of his songs have very strong Christian undertones. Some are even openly and obviously Christian in nature, although they're never preachy, and can almost always be interpereted in any way the listener wants to.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 20:10
Interesting thread (although i´m not that religious)
can´t help you, didn´t know christian prog existed hehe.
The only religious music i listen to is choir music by the russian composer Alfred Schnittke.
Nobody needs to go anywhere else. We are all, if we only knew it, already there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 20:21
I welcome all kinds of lyrics, but when an artist/band puts off n-th album about the same theme, it seems a bit unoriginal...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 20:22
Originally posted by Ty1020 Ty1020 wrote:

Although he's not always widely considered a prog artist or a Christian artist, I'd strongly recommend checking out Sufjan Stevens.


Sufjan Stevens is great.  His lyric writing is very interesting.  Definitely Christian, but If that sort of Christian, experimental take on indie folk-rock is appealing, I'd also recommend Anathallo (the "marching band gone wild").  Jennifer Knapp is another Christian singer-songwriter-type whose most recent album (The Way I Am) might be of interest to prog fans on the strength of its rhythm section (Tony Levin and Vinnie Colaiuta)...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 20:25
Originally posted by profanatio profanatio wrote:


Even ELP (Gasp!) have written lyrics that I wouldnt have done. "The Only Way" comes to mind and of course from 1st Impression Part 1 comes " Not content with that with our hands behind our backs we pull Jesus from a hat get in to that get in to that." Not something my pastor would smile upon!!


Indeed. I was slightly offended by that part from KE 9: 1st Impression as well. (Says the man with the BSS icon) As for "The Only Way", sometimes I found it sounded anti-God, sometimes it sounded pro-God. Jethro Tull's lyrics I found weren't to my taste either, on the "Aqualung" album. Although I understand Ian Anderson's message. Also, Genesis's "Visions of Angels" slightly offended me, the part where Peter Gabriel sings "God gave up this earth, its people long ago." And also "In vengance to a god no one can reach." But I'm not sure if the lyrics were talking THE God or a different god in regards to the "vengance" part.


ANYWAY, /rant. Here are the best Christian progressive musicians IMO:

Neal Morse <-------- as a Catholic, I loved his "One" album, I thought "Christian music that has GOOD music? EH?"

Glass Hammer






Edited by Teh_Slippermenz - December 17 2007 at 20:26
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 20:35

As a Catholic I should love Christian Prog, but i don't believe it's the best option.

IMHO music must be free and not advertising, I love spiritual and even political music but when it turns into evangelism or propaganda for a determined political position, I rather avoid it.
 
If I want to receive the message of God, I go to my Church, if I want to get politically involved, I go to a political party, but I believe music must not be used as a jingle or an instrument to make evangelism, no matter if it's Christian, Catholic, Jewish or whatever.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 20:39
I think Neal has a real fire lit underneath him being that he has only been a Christian within the past 6 or 7 years. If he comes off 'too preachy' to some (which I don't think he's being preachy--merely telling a story), he's probably pretty consumed with his faith and that's all he wants to write about. He may begin mingling in some more secular subjects here in the next few years and maybe (hopefully) entertain a Transatlantic reunion. Right now, I don't believe he's comfortable balancing the two styles and wants to focus on spreading the Word.

I don't have a ton of Christian discs, but there are some Christian artists that I do enjoy and I don't consider them lightweight at all. One band that I am listening to a lot is Casting Crowns. They aren't cookie cutter in the least. Extremely talented band.

Lastly, I can't recommend any other bands that haven't been mentioned. I've really been getting into Iona, which really pens some beautiful and spiritual music. All of the ones mentioned I'd highly recommend. Neal Morse especially.

E


Edited by E-Dub - December 17 2007 at 20:40
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 21:00
iona is known to deal with christian themes.  I purchaed one album from them a while ago and it did little for me musically, but I don't remember being offended by the lyrics.
South Carolina band Farpoint has 3 albums with fairly recognizable Christian themes, and quite pleasant music.  German group Eden did a great album (lyrics in German) called Erwartung which apparenlt has biblical references.  Strawbs "From the Witchwood" and "Grave New World" also deal with Christianity as well as other spiritual themes.  Benedictus is one of the most secular religious songs I know, and one of the most beautiful.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 21:45

Faith is a delicate thing. I think in this case most important things are talent and sincerity.
If you make something in the name of God, make it in the best way. I guess God is too busy to listen to banalities Wink.
Even more, straight preaching is often close to hypocricy.

For me one of the best examples of good music linked to religion is "Jesus Christ Superstar" by Webber - Rice.
Yes, it tells about Christ, but it also tells about things we meet in our lives: love, pain, courage, friendship, betrayal etc. And the story's told extremely talented, music and lyrics make the listener to live lives of the piece characters, love, sympatize and feel the pain of some of them, almost hate or despise some others.
I can only welcome if religious music is of such level. But it's so hard to reach it.



Edited by NotAProghead - December 17 2007 at 21:52
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 22:18
As a Catholic, Sola Scriptura aggravated me for the same reason, I could imagine, Christian lyrics would aggravate an Atheist. Typically, I do not mind well-written, professionally-done, and CREATIVE Christian lyrics with a good message. I start to get feisty is when they come and beat you over the head with typical cliches.

? Was a pretty good example of some CProg that I can enjoy. I have recently discovered AJALON to be some pretty good stuff too.
Prog... It's good.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 22:19
Originally posted by Rubidium Rubidium wrote:

If you're looking for Christian prog, the obvious place to start is Neal Morse.  Not only are his lyrics Christian in nature, but he's also one of the most talented modern prog composers.  Other bands that often mentioned are Glass Hammer, later Kansas, Proto-Kaw, and Salem Hill.  Ajalon is a band that doesn't get mentioned much, but they have produced some quality music.

But for my money, the best (aside from Neal Morse, of course) is Akacia.  All three of their albums are wonderful, but I think the best is their second album, The Brass Serpent.  And the title track is over 36 minutes long!  What could be better?
I didn't know about the website or some of the groups you have mentioned - thanks for that!  Since I have been a Christian for over thirty years, I had always been looking for bands that put the message with good music, i.e., prog.  Not sure you can find any of these on CD or vinyl, but my (old) short-list is:
 
1. Michael Omartian - White Horse (1974):  I had it on vinyl, and I am not sure if you can find it on CD (Omartian is perhaps more jazz-rock, but some of the tracks on this album border on prog)
2. Second Chapter of Acts - Narnia (1978):  A great concept album with great musicians, such as Phil Keaggy.  It reminds me of Marillion's Misplaced Childhood in how it weaves different song-concepts into one grandiose suite.
3. Aslan (late 1970s):  their name was contested by another secular band, so I am not sure they ever recorded.  Heard them live in concert at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa.  Their sound was like 'Kansas meets ELO with a sprinkling of Jethro Tull' - really excellent music!
 
You can still get (at least through Amazon.com):
1. Kansas - Song for America (1975):  'The Devil Game'  (and other 1980s Kansas releases; by mid-1984, Kerry Livgren formed the band, AD, which was not very prog)
2. Kerry Livgren solo release (1979):  A wonderful album with many different excellent guest musicians:  Ronnie James Dio; David Pack; Barriemore Barlow; and so on.  Some songs are less prog than others.
 
That's it from me.  I think others in this thread are more well informed than I am, but thought I would contribute my "two-cents" anyway...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 23:30
Originally posted by nightlamp nightlamp wrote:

Originally posted by Ty1020 Ty1020 wrote:

Although he's not always widely considered a prog artist or a Christian artist, I'd strongly recommend checking out Sufjan Stevens.


Sufjan Stevens is great.  His lyric writing is very interesting.  Definitely Christian, but If that sort of Christian, experimental take on indie folk-rock is appealing, I'd also recommend Anathallo (the "marching band gone wild").

Holy cow, thank you so so much for the Anathallo recommendation! I've been listening to them for hours and I think they're going to quickly become one of my favourite bands. I hear some Sufjan, Do Make Say Think, and Jaga Jazzist similarities, but at the same time they're completely fresh and unique... wow!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2007 at 00:56
I second the IONA recommendation.You will like them if your into Celtic music.HOURGLASS is very good if your into metal.
"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2007 at 03:22
As an observation, it is interesting to contrast this thread with the current one about "foreign" vocals.
 
There the consensus is that the lyrics are largely irrelevant, here for some they clearly matter a lot.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2007 at 03:36
Not prog, but Albert Ayler and Charles Gayle are awesome beyond words.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2007 at 04:50
One of the really nice things about prog music is that is religion neutral for the most part. 
By the way, have you heard Wormwood by the Residents or In The Beginning by Rick Wakeman?
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2007 at 06:09
Don't laugh but a lot of Chis de Burgh's earlier stuff is prog influenced and inspired by Christianity, before he went wishy-washy mainstream.  He had a fairly good concept album called "Crusader" which you may want to check out.
http://www.last.fm/group/Progressive+Folk
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