Negative comments on bios... |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: October 17 2007 at 22:27 | ||
Well T, there are some facts you should know before commenting:
If you have any problem with the review, tell M@X who approved and added this bio nobody did in almost two years (In the early days of PA M@X was the only one who added the bands, but you don't know that because you were not a member then). A biography needs facts and opinions, cold enumeration of facts helps nothing, an opinion is also important.
I stand in my opinion.
Iván
EDIT:
Just in case, this is my bio of STYX
I believe it will get the interest of listeners more than just giving facts and dates, as a fact I believe it speaks well of the band, telling people that everything they did is better than Kilroy Was Here....If I got a dime for each time I read "Hey STYX is crap, just listen Mr Robotto", I would be rich, but this comments harm the the band, because people believe all their music is in the level of this album, and that's not true.
Read the forums, many people use Mr Robotto and Babe to attack STYX, and probably they never listened anything else, I'm trying to be honest swaying...Yes KWH is bad, but they have a lot of good music also. Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 17 2007 at 23:57 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: October 17 2007 at 22:38 | ||
We did this on Symphonic Raffaella, Bob, HT and me added more than 200 biographies of bands that didn't had one or had a two lines bio, it was a monumental task, but we managed to do it in less than a month.
If you check, Symphonic has at the most two bands without bios out of almost 400 and hardly very short ones, it took a lot of job, but it was rewarding.
Iván
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: October 18 2007 at 00:20 | ||
If people read my initial post, you can check, as it's the best way to do to find out truths, that I never even mention who wrote that email, as, in fact, I didn't even know and didn't even care. I just heard STYX the night before and I checked the bio to see what was said about "Kilroy was here". I found out something I don't agree with, I create a thread about it, as I said, mostly for FUTURE bios, as it's quite difficult that old ones would be changed.
I stand by what I said. For future bios, I suggest to keep them opinion-less, specially if those opinions are negative.
I don't care who wrote what. I never attacked nobody. If someone thinks I did it, well, let's apply the cold "reading what the words say and what they leterally MEAN" principle and we'll find my initial idea is about something bigger (or smaller, whatever you want) than just bashing a person's work.
Live with what you want.
EDIT: Please, let's not turn this into a personal matter...the discussion was going very well and ws quite useful up to this point Edited by The T - October 18 2007 at 00:26 |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65268 |
Posted: October 18 2007 at 00:26 | ||
I think we all do a phenomenal job.. if someone slips in a complimentary remark or notes a criticism, I think that's fine.. many professional bios include such important things
Edited by Atavachron - October 18 2007 at 00:27 |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: October 18 2007 at 00:28 | ||
Of course we do. If we're so easy to give criticism to bands and albums (as ALL of us are), I think we can take opinions about some work that we have done, specially when the author of it was irrelevant for the actual substance of the opinion.
This is just for the future.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65268 |
Posted: October 18 2007 at 00:31 | ||
don't quite follow that..
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: October 18 2007 at 00:44 | ||
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 18 2007 at 00:51 |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: October 18 2007 at 00:52 | ||
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: October 18 2007 at 01:03 | ||
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 18 2007 at 01:11 |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: October 18 2007 at 03:39 | ||
I think the point here is not to take this thread as a criticism of a single biography, but a general discussion on the styling of biographies. Let not get tied up in personalities.
Atavachron, no problem at all with discogs in the bio section, but as has been stated, they tend not to get updated after the bio has been added.
Anyone can write a biography for a band, and receive credit for it. If the band does not presently have a biography, jsut send the new one on to Hibou for validation and addition. If there is already a biography, it's probably bets to check with a member of the specialist team for the band's genre before submitting.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20251 |
Posted: October 18 2007 at 03:42 | ||
OK, I'll restate my point on this.
Negative comments on bio about albums generally considered poor by the majority or popular wisdom is not be seen as an opinion, but a fact!!
I don't see where saying in the bio that from a ProgArchives that Invisible Touch is less worthy from a prog point of view than The Lamb or even Duke is an opînion, but simply an argument that reflects the site's advice in general. You'll find other sites that will say the opposite.
In Styx's case, I don't think it is a problem either as the whole band reneg the Killroy album anyway and call it a piece of crap, except its sole conceptor Denis DeYoung.
As a matter of fact, this "opinion" becomes a precious info for those wanting to spare money!
Is Lise still active?? (haven't heard from her in ages
and must we send her our propsed bios for her approval??? Edited by Sean Trane - October 18 2007 at 03:45 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: October 18 2007 at 03:55 | ||
I think we're barking up the same tree Hugues. It is perhaps a question of how you say it, rather than what you say. If you say "The general view of fans is..." That is different to simply saying "XXX album is their worst", which sounds like a personal opinion. Yes, Hibou is still active behind the scenes. Those SCs who have direct access to the bios can of course still update them.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20251 |
Posted: October 18 2007 at 09:18 | ||
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: October 18 2007 at 12:51 | ||
Hi Bob, I understand you, but please understand me, everyboddy klnows that despite the general dislike in this Forum for STYX, I'm a fan and always find myself defending them, so there's no hatred or bad intentions towards the band, by the contrary.
But I read and heard phrases similiar to this one hundreeds of times:
"STYX shouldn't be here, just listen the crap they released as Babe and Mr Roboto"
And this doesn't happen only with STYX, also with Kansas, people criticize them because "Dust in the Wind", a member has called them Redneck Prog and Pork Burger.
So if you know where the hate against this bands goes, the best thing to do is to tell people, "Yes, Kilroy Was Here is a terrible album, but Crystal Ball and The Grand Illusion are outstanding, maybe not totally Prog, but both are great albums"
This is the general idea about STYX:
So if I talk the truth (Please, it's accepted by the own members of STYX except Dennis de Young) people will learn, that they didn't listened the best album and that the general sound of STYX is far better than the infamous album, so they will give a chance to The Grand Illusion or STYX with CYO DVD..
The more people that buy Kinroy was Here or listen Babe, the less people that will have interest in listening STYX, so better avoid this album and give a chance to the rest.
People in Perú hate STYX because they heard only Mr Roboto and Babe (outr radios played both songs ad nauseam), so in a Peruvian Forum in which I'm moderator, I'm also in charge of the album of the week (Since may I believe) and there I added The Grand illusion .
The response was incredible, people couldn't believe this was the same band that released Kilroy Was here, now they are buying this album.
That's my opinion, it's better top tell the wiode known truth that to tell people that this album has something good, becauise most of thepeople who listemn it, won't go for the older stuff.
Iván
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: October 18 2007 at 15:50 | ||
Ivan, I think we all agree on that. What we're saying though is that such comments should not simply be put as a personal opinion, but phrased in such a way that it is established opinion. The case you make here makes that clear, but perhaps the phrasing in the biography does not.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: October 18 2007 at 21:47 | ||
Well, to avoid suceptibilities, I changed the phrase for:
This era ends in 1983 with the infamous "Kilroy Was Here" a weak concept album, which according to critics and fans reached their lowest musical point with the ultra commercial, repetitive and way bellow their standards track "Mr. Roboto".
I won't change the word infamous because according to the dictionary it means "Having a reputation of the worst kind", and that's a fact.
So now it's clear that the opinion about Kilroy and Mr Roboto comes from the critics and fans.
Hope it's clear now.
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 18 2007 at 21:48 |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: October 19 2007 at 03:31 | ||
Ideal Ivan. A good example for others.
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Angelo
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Posted: October 19 2007 at 03:51 | ||
Not really - once a new album comes out, it is added to the site, but never to the list at the end of the discography. Redundancy and mismatches go hand in hand after a while. Besides that, there's a slow but steady discography completion project on the roll. EDIT: but after reading this thread start-to-end, I guess this point was made already Edited by Angelo - October 19 2007 at 04:01 |
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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