Genesis Montreal

Vibrationbaby wrote: It`s good to be back on track. To be quite honest I was playing a bit of a devil`s advocate when I started this thread just to get some discussion going. Also, I did enjoy myself at the show even though Genesis aren`t my favourite band. The sound in the big O that night was definitely flawed. They did play a good mix from the early years and the lateryears. Personally I prefer more intimate concert settings and think that the stage show was really blown out of proportion. A concert should be about the music first and foremost and this concert, in my opinion, was just too "showy".

Why don`t you people read down the threads before you post. I wrote this yesterday. I might be a bit crazy but I certainly wouldn`t have wasted my time if I really didn`t want to see the bloody Genesis show.

Lucent wrote: White Shadow wrote: Lucent wrote: Notice how Phil Collins brutally raped Genesis's sound. Anyone care to disagree? notice how you don't know what you're talking about because they wrote as a team.  And also take a good notice how Phil Collins is 100X better of a musician than you ever will be.   Care to disagree? Because your opinion matters.

What opinion?  Do you actually think you're a better musician than Phil Collins?  It would have been one thing if you said they went in a pop direction while Phil was the frontman.  But to say what you said was not necessary at all.  All you did was repeat what countless people before have said and it wasn't even accurate.  And what you first stated was an opinion!  And then you ask people to disagree and when they do you say "Like anyone cares...".  That's real intelligent.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: White Shadow wrote: I agree that you like what you like and there's nothing wrong with not liking something.    There we agree.   However, and I'm not a psychologist, but I think you want to hate Phil Collins' music.  You can't stand that they went in another direction and therefore, want to condemn it as crap.    I don't want to hate anything, I wopuld be stupid to limit the albums i have to listen, believe me, i bought ATTW3 and Duke the nmorning they were released without listening them....Do you think I bought the albums because I wanted to hate them?  Obviously you're not going to admit it,  all I meant is I find it hard to believe that you hate something that in my mind is great.  It wasn't an insult or a "personal attack" as they say on PA. I was school student who lived on tips of my parents, so it would be silly to buy an album wanting to hate it.   It's simply that I know what I like.   BTW: I haven't used the word crap. i didn't mean that you did. I know you're older than me and have been listening to prog longer than me, but I wish you would take two hours of your time.  Clear your mind of "Supper's Ready" and "Firth of Fifth" and just listen to some later stuff.  Forget there ever was a band "Genesis", just listen.  There are some really good songs, particularly on "Duke" and "ATTWT".    Do you believe I haven't dione this being a Genesis fan? Do you believe i wasn't emotioned when some friends told me that EWe Can't dance was a return to the roorts or rthat Mama was a Prog masterpiece?   I got them all and listened carefully the albums and i don't like them, as simple as that.   After that it is more specific songs I like rather than albums but even so, I think it is worth it.  I doubt this will change your perspective and you might not even read this, but I think you're missing out.    I already did it and my opinion haven't changed, i don't like 3 men Genesis and i don't think i hjave lost anything, by the contrary i could expend my money in albums of new bands that i love. well i am sorry you feel this way.  I guess, like i said before, that I can't believe that someone with the same love of Genesis can listen to "Duke's Travels", "Cul-De-Sac", "Deep in the Motherlode", and "The Lady Lies" (to name some) and dislike it.   BTW, the tour was unbelievable.  There was more prog than pop and the pop was good pop, even though you stated you don't like their pop.  C'mon, "Ripples", "Carpet Crawlers", "Los Endos" was mind-blowing, "Firth of Fifth", "I Know What I Like", "Cinema Show", "Afterglow", and "In the Cage".    I don't like Phil Collins voice or Daryl Stuermer doing Hackett parts. i heard In the Cage by Phil and simply hate it, IMO it lacks of emotion, he was never abble to transmit the claustrophobia and the fear Rael felt when trapped in the cage. I disagree.  I think Daryl does a great job.  Hackett is my favorite guitarist but I am very happy that I got to see Daryl.  I also love Phil's voice.   Firth of Fifth without Hackett doing his solo is not worth IMHO, never liked i Know what i Like, not even by Peter.   Afterglow or Ripples are not among my favorites. that's sad.  I love them.  Ripples was my favorite at the show.   The instrumental section of Cinnema Show is incredible, or at least it was in Second's Out, but Phil's voice kills it for me.  They only played the instrumental section.   So you got your reply, I'm familiar with all Genesis eras, I don't use to talk about something I haven't listened carefully.Once again, you don't have to get defensive.  It wasn't an attack.  I never accused you of not knowing what you talk about.   Also, as a sidenote, I have to say I'm ashamed to be from Boston (US).  Everybody left right in the middle of the Carpet Crawlers because Phil said it was the last song.  At least 15-20% of the people were pouring out and my friends and I were pissed. Well, I left the Invisible Touch Tour concert when i heard the theme song, so I don't judge people who don't like Carpet Crawlers, it's just a matter of taste.  Well, you've heard "Invisible Touch" before and knew what it was. Cheers   Iván

Edited by White Shadow - September 22 2007 at 21:04

Quick note to Ivan (YES, I can actually be brief at times, or try)
I should have explained that some of my retorts were mostly aimed at a certain VB, whose posts I really found , er ... lost when it came to their logic, or maybe they were soaked in a certain liquid.
So while we do cross word swords every now & then, I figure you wouldn't just buy an album or go to a concert knowing beforehand that it would be something you would abhor. Good take on your Genesis preferences. At least they are based on the group's music & not the group's personel. By the way, I do see Genesis as being the same "band" all the way through, but changes in the line-up & musical orientation understandably left some "old" fans disappointed. I just feel that sometimes some, emphasis on the SOME, take it way too personally.
P.S. the terms Gabrielites & Philistines were just too obvious to not use in the interminable Phil vs Peter debates that used to (over) populate these pages.

debrewguy wrote: Quick note to Ivan (YES, I can actually be brief at times, or try) I should have explained that some of my retorts were mostly aimed at a certain VB, whose posts I really found , er ... lost when it came to their logic, or maybe they were soaked in a certain liquid. So while we do cross word swords every now & then, I figure you wouldn't just buy an album or go to a concert knowing beforehand that it would be something you would abhor. Good take on your Genesis preferences. At least they are based on the group's music & not the group's personel. By the way, I do see Genesis as being the same "band" all the way through, but changes in the line-up & musical orientation understandably left some "old" fans disappointed. I just feel that sometimes some, emphasis on the SOME, take it way too personally. P.S. the terms Gabrielites & Philistines were just too obvious to not use in the interminable Phil vs Peter debates that used to (over) populate these pages.

Well you`re not exactly full of logic yourself. I wish you morons would stop attacking me just because I don`t like the stupid band. And you obviously are one of those who haven`t read down the whole thread.

White Shadow wrote: I believe I just explained why I said that.  Where did I say you were an idiot?  And how is that arrogant?  If you loved something so much and felt it was genius, and someone with similar music tastes, not just anybody, felt the direct opposite, you wouldn't be surprised?  I never said you had to like it.  I said you should relisten because I think it's worth it.  You're the one attacking me. You didn't said I am as idiot and I never evem implied you said it, but this sucesion of replies iindicate so:   Ivan wrote before:  I don't want to hate anything, I would be stupid to limit the albums i have to listen, believe me, i bought ATTW3 and Duke thenmorning they were released without listening them....Do you think I bought the albums because I wanted to hate them?   Obviously you're not going to admit it,    read your previous post and link it with this one, if you say i buty the Genesis albums just because I want to hate them and I say that would be an idiot's act and you insist in the same point, well, the conclusion is obvious.   I knew I said it.  It isn't a matter of having a better memory.  I still never said that "you called it crap".  I just used the word as a general term for what bad music means.    Please White Shadow,  read what you said:   Originally posted by White Shadow   You can't stand that they went in another direction and therefore, want to condemn it as crap..   Crap is a very specific term and a word i very rarely use, if you say i condemn them as crap, I have to believe you mean it...... I can't read your mind to make a psychological analysis to know what you meant.   No offense, but you're not a very nice person.  I said I feel an emotion of sadness that someone can't enjoy something as I do and you try to turn it around and make me look arrogant.   Please pal you need to express your ideas better, you said:     all I meant is I find it hard to believe that you hate something that in my mind is great..   This statement is 100% arrogant, you later tried to change it, mask it, but you simply can't understand why doesn't everybody likes what you find great, you don't mention that we share tastes or anything you just stated plain and simply that you find it great and you can't ubnderstand why don't all the rest of the world likes it.   The first tiime you said it sounded very arrogant, but again I can't read your mind.   We have  similar music tastes.  Do you really think I'd ask a random person why they don't like Duke.   Probably a POP fan will accept Duke easier than an old school Propghead, remember that two tracks from this album reached the Billboard Anual Chart:   Billboard AlbumsBillboard SinglesGRAMMY Awards Year Single Chart Peak 1980 Misunderstanding   Pop Singles 14 1980 Turn It On Again   Pop Singles 58   So it would be easier to accept by a POP fan. and it's not a matter of popyularity exclusively, it'sn a matter of sound, IMHO Duke is a Pop album with some proggy tracks.   Uhm, our taste is similar, that's the whole point.   We don't have similar taste in what it matters to three men Genesis, why is it so hard to understand? Most progheads love King Crimson, except ITCOTCK and Red I can't understand a single one, I don't like RIO, we all have different taste.    I know, you said that.  That's why I said I disagree.   At last you get it, we can disagree, it's not so hard to accept.   I wouldn't have percieved that as an attack if someone said that to me.  At no point did I insult you or question your knowledge.  I said I think you should relisten because there is some great stuff on it.   Understand it, you can make me relisten them one million times, i will still hate their music...IT'S MY TASTE, ACCEPT IT!   well a few people leaving is different from a few hundred people leaving.  I didn't get up at songs I don't like.  I sat through "Invisisble Touch" out of love and respect.   The people who left were probably Pop era fans who don't have a clue about Carpet Crawlers, i'm ready to accept that, it's not a problem, they won't stay for something they don't like as I didn't stayed to listen music I hate.   Iván

Vibrationbaby wrote: debrewguy wrote: Quick note to Ivan (YES, I can actually be brief at times, or try) I should have explained that some of my retorts were mostly aimed at a certain VB, whose posts I really found , er ... lost when it came to their logic, or maybe they were soaked in a certain liquid. So while we do cross word swords every now & then, I figure you wouldn't just buy an album or go to a concert knowing beforehand that it would be something you would abhor. Good take on your Genesis preferences. At least they are based on the group's music & not the group's personel. By the way, I do see Genesis as being the same "band" all the way through, but changes in the line-up & musical orientation understandably left some "old" fans disappointed. I just feel that sometimes some, emphasis on the SOME, take it way too personally. P.S. the terms Gabrielites & Philistines were just too obvious to not use in the interminable Phil vs Peter debates that used to (over) populate these pages. Well you`re not exactly full of logic yourself. I wish you morons would stop attacking me just because I don`t like the stupid band. And you obviously are one of those who haven`t read down the whole thread.

Read the whole thread ? That would leave me with too little time to write my overlong posts

P.S. I believe (from my admittedly incomplete reading of the various posts) that the gist of the flak that you have received is not about the fact that you hate Genesis. Just that you bothered to go to a concert that you knew beforehand you were going to hate. A show by a group, that in your estimation, has lost all claim to its' past glory. Free tickets or not, is there really nothing else that you could have done that you might have found enjoyable ?

debrewguy wrote: True to a point, Ivan. Some posts are overlooked if they seem repetitious. Some turn me off very quickly & so I don't even bother to get through the whole thing. And as with any means of communication, sometimes we miss things or assume certain "facts". As for your above post, I'm not sure if you are saying that I repeated what you had said, or that I just used your words to set up mine.

Ivan ends his Geneisis life at W&W and that is fine mine ends at Duke. I am still going to go see them for three reasons one My Girfriend has never seen them and two they are still better than many bands playing and three I love going to the Hollywood Bowl.

The Doctor wrote: Shakespeare wrote: Lucent wrote: Notice how Phil Collins brutally raped Genesis's sound. Anyone care to disagree? Did Genesis' sound give consent? 'Cause then it's not really rape... (And why do you pass off everyone else's opinions as irrelevant? The point of forums is to share your opinions!)

Why thank you, Doc. From you, this means a lot. Normally when you quote me, you twist my words and make me seem almost as perverted at you!