New subgenres?!?!

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ I don't think it's ridiculous, it's just not the case for every prog metal band. But there are quite a few metal bands which are seriously implementing classical music, and lots which are clearly influenced.

you are missing my point, Mike; I am talking about stylistic criteria which define "prog metal"

maybe it is only my classically trained ear that can't hear those influences . seriously, 90% of the prog metal artists ( I listened to all sound examples in the database) have no classical influences whatever, at least not to this classically trained pianist

HOLD ON!

Patience, patience! The work to move the bands to their new homes has barely begun.

Our site is built on it... PAtience.

Alucard wrote: BaldJean wrote: 1800iareyay wrote: I'm not outraged, I just disagree. The difference between Rush and Meshuggah is greater than production value. While I agree that a lot of early heavy prog bands influenced metal (Rush, Heep, Purple), it's wrong to combine the two. Besides, prog metal's probably the next genre to be divided because of the various bands that fall into metal. I challenge you then to point out the stylistic characteristics that differentiate "prog metal" from "heavy prog" (apart from the improved sound quality)   'Heavy Prog' is based mainly on the classic 12 bar blues form and  blues scales, while 'Metal' uses rarely  Blues scales and more scale material you find in classical music , even so  the famous parallel fourths used by lot of  Metal bands (and which you don't find in Heavy Prog) are STRICTLY forbidden in classical composition...same for the vocal style most 'Heavy Prog' singers sing more or less Blues like while Metal singers don't and ..yes the band look is different

You stole my words

MikeEnRegalia wrote: BaldJean wrote: maybe it is only my classically trained ear that can't hear those influences . seriously, 90% of the prog metal artists ( I listened to all sound examples in the database) have no classical influences whatever, at least not to this classically trained pianist Luckily I happen to also be classically trained ... and the classical influences are so plain and obvious that I wouldn't know where to begin. But here are almost thirty albums you can start with (click the note symbols for samples): http://ratingfreak.com/home/charts.xhtml?chart.genre=metal&chart.tag.1=orchestral

well, maybe I heard the wrong examples so far; I am no expert on prog metal.
it may, however, also be that we differ in what we call "classic influences". after having listened to some of your examples I think this is the case


Edited by BaldJean - August 23 2007 at 16:41

by "classical influences" I first of all mean polyphony, which is rare to find anywhere in prog. Gentle Giant have a few examples of it, as do VdGG and High Tide (so much for "Heavy Rock" being "blues oriented"; show me where blues is polyphonic). Zappa was able to create it; he even has a few examples of polytonality, which is extremely rare, not only in prog. I don't think running up and down a few major and minor scales, however impressive it may sound, already counts as "classical influence"

shut it Meatloaf 

MikeEnRegalia wrote: BaldJean wrote: by "classical influences" I first of all mean polyphony, which is rare to find anywhere in prog. Gentle Giant have a few examples of it, as do VdGG and High Tide (so much for "Heavy Rock" being "blues oriented"; show me where blues is polyphonic). Zappa was able to create it; he even has a few examples of polytonality, which is extremely rare, not only in prog. I don't think running up and down a few major and minor scales, however impressive it may sound, already counts as "classical influence" So a piece of music is either a perfect example of polyphony or utter crap? Sorry, I think there's something in between ... And classical music is not all about polyphony. And even if it was, there are different levels. In any case, if you think that these metal bands are all just running up a few major and minor scales, you're only proving that you didn't listen to them properly. Even Malmsteen did more than that ...

you are pulling that out of the hat; I never said that. as if there were no choice but "classical influence or crap". but what do you call "classical influence" then, if not polyphony? I don't see why I should be in the defense; you proposed there is "classical influence", so go ahead and point it out to me! sure, there is more to classical influences than mere polyphony, but I have yet to find an artist who is able to develop a theme and modulate it like classical composers do. Peter Hammill comes closest in his "Fall of the House of Usher" (which is one of the reasons I have very high regard for that album), but even he falls short  in the end