Political discussion thread

micky wrote: hmmm....  I'll let you two duke it out on that end.. and take this issue on from the other end.....   what people fail to realize are it is well known that it takes an act of Congress to immigrate to this country.  When that is the case... no wall .... that is never going to be built anyway (the right has done enough damage to this country without making it more visibily into a police state)...is going to stem people from coming here.  Again...those calling for a wall live in the same dreamland as those who the fight the so called war on terror, thinking that avoiding the root cause of problems will solve the problem.   We have two solutions to the problem to eliminate illegal immigration......  become a police state and resemble the Iron Curtain or make legal immigration easy and take away any reason to come here illegally. No other choices will fix the problem.  Which one do you think becomes the country we claim to be.... Face it... a wall didn't stop people in Berlin from crossing it... and they frickin shot people... do you really think a wall will stop illegal immigration.  Of course you don't.... just like Iraq... you'll say you've done something to combat a problem.. and beg more time for a solution.. Time enough for those who put the damn wall up to spend their time at the public trough... thus leaving the problem for others.

Edited by Equality 7-2521 - July 27 2007 at 11:00

Syzygy wrote: Geck0 wrote: Well, I don't know how to solve it, but it does annoy me that whenever I walk through my town centre, I see illegal immigrants on their mobile 'phones, wearing the latest designer gear... whilst most legal citizens struggle to make a wage that will pay their mortgage/rent.   Possibly a stupid question, but how do you know they're illegal immigrants?

Good question.

I don't, but some of them might very well be.  Besides, even if they're legal, they still seem to have all the latest gadgets and gizmos, which most of my friends don't have.  Yet you see these same people down the Labour Exchange, or outside Wise Employment.

There just seems to be a double standard to me, that's all.

At the moment I have no time to go in depth into the subject of immigration. My opinions on the subject are quite unconventional, and I don't want to start a flame war after having spent over three months away from the boards.

However, for those of you who think the spouse of a US citizen becomes automatically a citizen, or even gets a Green Card, I would recommend you take a look at this site:

www.visajourney.com

You will see what is in store for me and what a lot of other people have had to go through, not to mention the not inconsiderable amounts of money they have had to spend in order to be granted the right to live with their spouse.

As far as I know, nowhere in the world does one becomes automatically a citizen after marriage, but,  as I pointed out in a previous post, they don't have to spend months doing paperwork, or shell out thousands of dollars in order to be able to be with their other half. The process can be quite lengthy too, which could mean spending months apart, or not being able to work for months, even years (I know of people to whom this has happened). Probably you call it protecting your country - I call it violating a basic human right, but I'm probably a bit odd in the head.

As to the questioning in airports, I admit to being touchy about such matters, but this is the way I am. I've heard of European citizens being harassed by border authorities, or even being denied entry to the US, which meant a lot of money going down the drain. This makes me reasonably nervous every time I have to go through immigration, even though I have nothing to hide, nor do I have any intention of breaking the law.

Of course, as Pat said, no one is forcing me to come here. If I am planning on doing so, it is for a series of valid reasons, most of all having to do with wanting the best for my future husband. However, I think you'll allow me the luxury of resenting being treated as a potentially dangerous person.


Edited by Ghost Rider - July 26 2007 at 11:04

Geck0 wrote: Well, I don't know how to solve it, but it does annoy me that whenever I walk through my town centre, I see illegal immigrants on their mobile 'phones, wearing the latest designer gear... whilst most legal citizens struggle to make a wage that will pay their mortgage/rent.

micky wrote: hmmm....  I'll let you two duke it out on that end.. and take this issue on from the other end.....   what people fail to realize are it is well known that it takes an act of Congress to immigrate to this country.  When that is the case... no wall .... that is never going to be built anyway (the right has done enough damage to this country without making it more visibily into a police state)...is going to stem people from coming here.  Again...those calling for a wall live in the same dreamland as those who the fight the so called war on terror, thinking that avoiding the root cause of problems will solve the problem.   We have two solutions to the problem to eliminate illegal immigration......  become a police state and resemble the Iron Curtain or make legal immigration easy and take away any reason to come here illegally. No other choices will fix the problem.  Which one do you think becomes the country we claim to be.... Face it... a wall didn't stop people in Berlin from crossing it... and they frickin shot people... do you really think a wall will stop illegal immigration.  Of course you don't.... just like Iraq... you'll say you've done something to combat a problem.. and beg more time for a solution.. Time enough for those who put the damn wall up to spend their time at the public trough... thus leaving the problem for others.

hmmm....  I'll let you two duke it out on that end..

and take this issue on from the other end.....   what people fail to realize are it is well known that it takes an act of Congress to immigrate to this country.  When that is the case... no wall .... that is never going to be built anyway (the right has done enough damage to this country without making it more visibily into a police state)...is going to stem people from coming here.  Again...those calling for a wall live in the same dreamland as those who the fight the so called war on terror, thinking that avoiding the root cause of problems will solve the problem.   We have two solutions to the problem to eliminate illegal immigration......  become a police state and resemble the Iron Curtain or make legal immigration easy and take away any reason to come here illegally. No other choices will fix the problem.  Which one do you think becomes the country we claim to be....

Face it... a wall didn't stop people in Berlin from crossing it... and they frickin shot people... do you really think a wall will stop illegal immigration.  Of course you don't.... just like Iraq... you'll say you've done something to combat a problem.. and beg more time for a solution.. Time enough for those who put the damn wall up to spend their time at the public trough... thus leaving the problem for others.


Edited by micky - July 25 2007 at 21:30

With Oden on Their Side

Ghost Rider wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: A medical examination and an interview are a violation of basic human rights? I guess every employer in the world, as well as colleges and universities, are all violating human rights. A country's safety is pretty important especially to those living in it; some precautions do have to be taken before people can waltz right in. Those pesky medical checks are what eliminated diseases like TB in this country; only to have it become reanimated by illegal imigration. I have been an employee of the Italian state for over 20 years, and in the course of that time I had three medical examinations, if I remember well. Therefore, I am well aware of the practice. However, in none of those cases was I required to be vaccinated against illnesses which usually occur in childhood (I'm not talking about TB, cholera or yellow fever). Vaccines are not something to be assumed lightly, especially at the age I am now. I remember having a very strong reaction as a child (and I've always been very healthy) when I was vaccinated against smallpox, and I wouldn't really enjoy repeating the experience now. In any case, Western Europe is not an uncharted wilderness where people are not able to take care of their health. As far as I know, child care in Europe is much better than in the US, and child mortality figures are far lower (not to mention our life expectancy, which is generally higher). But then, we still believe in offering people universal healthcare - though, unfortunately, things might be changing. As to the interview, it depends on what a person is asked. In my book, even being asked at the airport what the purpose of my visit is, when I come to your country ready to spend quite a bit of my hard-earned Euros, is something unacceptable -  especially since no US citizen is asked anything of the sort when travelling to Europe. Having to provide evidence of a "real" relationship with my husband is equally distasteful to me, even more so as I have nothing whatsoever to hide. The Web is full of rather unpleasant stories happened to citizens of highly developed countries (i.e. Canada and Western Europe) when trying to get to the US LEGALLY, in most cases for family reasons. Illegal immigration is not the issue here, but the right of a woman to be able to share a life with her husband without having to spend thousands of dollars and wasting a lot of precious time in paperwork, not to mention wait months or even years before she is able to work. In Europe we have a lot of illegal immigration, but no one has ever dreamed of making life so difficult for couples who only want to exercise their right to live together.

Equality 7-2521 wrote: A medical examination and an interview are a violation of basic human rights? I guess every employer in the world, as well as colleges and universities, are all violating human rights. A country's safety is pretty important especially to those living in it; some precautions do have to be taken before people can waltz right in. Those pesky medical checks are what eliminated diseases like TB in this country; only to have it become reanimated by illegal imigration.

I have been an employee of the Italian state for over 20 years, and in the course of that time I had three medical examinations, if I remember well. Therefore, I am well aware of the practice. However, in none of those cases was I required to be vaccinated against illnesses which usually occur in childhood (I'm not talking about TB, cholera or yellow fever). Vaccines are not something to be assumed lightly, especially at the age I am now. I remember having a very strong reaction as a child (and I've always been very healthy) when I was vaccinated against smallpox, and I wouldn't really enjoy repeating the experience now.

In any case, Western Europe is not an uncharted wilderness where people are not able to take care of their health. As far as I know, child care in Europe is much better than in the US, and child mortality figures are far lower (not to mention our life expectancy, which is generally higher). But then, we still believe in offering people universal healthcare - though, unfortunately, things might be changing.

As to the interview, it depends on what a person is asked. In my book, even being asked at the airport what the purpose of my visit is, when I come to your country ready to spend quite a bit of my hard-earned Euros, is something unacceptable -  especially since no US citizen is asked anything of the sort when travelling to Europe. Having to provide evidence of a "real" relationship with my husband is equally distasteful to me, even more so as I have nothing whatsoever to hide. The Web is full of rather unpleasant stories happened to citizens of highly developed countries (i.e. Canada and Western Europe) when trying to get to the US LEGALLY, in most cases for family reasons.

Illegal immigration is not the issue here, but the right of a woman to be able to share a life with her husband without having to spend thousands of dollars and wasting a lot of precious time in paperwork, not to mention wait months or even years before she is able to work. In Europe we have a lot of illegal immigration, but no one has ever dreamed of making life so difficult for couples who only want to exercise their right to live together.

Geck0 wrote: Well I read an article last year in an English newspaper about an 80+ year old former member of the NASDAP who had been living in America for years.  Not even her family knew of her background.  Then one day she mentioned it and she's been deported back to Germany. How was/is she a threat?